ESL 63 panel refurbishment?

[Dowser]

So, one of my 63s is prone to intermittent clicking/ticking - quite unobtrusive currently, & not aggressive sounding (I only hear it between tracks), and switching speaker off for 5 minutes restores operation to normal.

The ticking/clicking coincides with the neon flashing & is coming from the top left hand side of the speaker.

I guess I need to do something about it...

Reading up a little bit, I understand the common problem on 63 panels is the glue joint between stator on outer plastic panel failing, and the stator then interfering with the mylar coated film. Does anyone know whether this causes the ticking/clicking issue I have?

I assume, to do the job properly, I should remove all panels and re-glue any suspect panels - as a preventative measure to stop further future failures -internet info suggests this is possible without damaging the panel, has anyone actually done it?

I also plan on changing the socks at some point - has anyone done this, and do you need to completely separate the whole base (with electronics) from the frame holding the panels. Assuming yes, may as well do them at same time.

It all sounds like quite a lot of work, that will take a few evenings/weekends to achieve...time like this I wish I'd kept my 57s too

Last question - do Quad themselves still supply 63 panels? Anyone know the cost? Otherwise - best place to get original style panels? I would rather only change 1 panel if that is all that has failed, but if the sound changes then should at least look at doing one panel on each speaker.

Thanks, Richard

 

[Robert]

If its very gentle ticking and its just started, I wouldn't worry too much just yet.
It's summer, humidity is rising and Quads tend to be more prone to bouts of static-like noise on humid days.
This is normal and described in the manual.

I bought a new panel from Quad about 3 years ago. it cost £150 IIRC.
Its the same panel used the later 988/989 and is better glued.

For the socks you beed to loosen the base from the frame as the sock needs to be tucked underneath the main body of the panel assembly.

 

[foxwelljsly]

Where can one buy new socks for these?

 

[Dowser]

Where can one buy new socks for these?

Quad Musikwiedergabe have assorted colours (also stock colours elsewhere on the site), at €69 each.

Thanks Rob - it started this year and is related to humidity, and strangely deep bass sets them off. While I can barely hear it, it bugs me now and has to be fixed...or at least investigated.

Think I am going to investigate correct glue to refix stators to the plastic frames, get some socks and do a full strip down, clean, re-glue where needed and then re-assemble.

Does anyone have a source for decent EHT cable I can use to rewire the panels with?

Thanks, Richard

 

[Paul R]

Reuse the original Quad stuff, both EHT and signal.

Paul

 

[YNWOAN]

Quad Musikwiedergabe have assorted colours (also stock colours elsewhere on the site), at €69 each.

You were asking about replacement 63 panels and I see the German company you linked to also sell them (at a price).

 

[Dowser]

Reuse the original Quad stuff, both EHT and signal.

Paul

Thanks - it doesn't get damaged by removal or deteriorate?

You were asking about replacement 63 panels and I see the German company you linked to also sell them (at a price).

Yes, thanks Mark - Manfred is a good guy to deal with too (he sorted some stands for mine - I emailed him about a set on his website, they were gone - but he emailed me back 3 or 4 weeks later to say he'd found some - good price too, shipping was more expensive than purchase price), but if I end up swapping panels I'd like to do 1 original Quad made one, and would probably end up ordering 2 panels (one for each channel) if I purchased non-Quad. Mind you, if the original Quad ones available are from the later models, then I guess panel construction techniques have probably changed, and maybe not for the better? No idea!

Richard

 

[634909]

Hi,
the 63 service document can be found on line and covers grille cloth replacement and very importantly safety points for working on these.
Grille cloths are available from both Quad and One thing Audio, both of whom I've found are very helpful with advice on the care and upkeep.
For stands before you buy get them ( your 63's) about 12 inches in the air so that your ears are level with the centre of the speaker and see what you think. Look up gradient SW63 and you'll see what I mean.
As for refurbishment - be careful obviously there are safety points to consider with them. But look online as theres loads of information on panel repair.
Enjoy

 

[Dowser]

Ah, so...today was the day

As the weather gets warmer here, clicking is getting worse, normally kicking in after about an hours playing them and only goes away when switching the speaker power off (switching off amp doesn't help).

A really shitty & scary job to do quite frankly...strip down with pictures;

Slide top off, pull sock off velocro on top & peel it all the way down over the base;

Remove the duct tape holding the grills on top and bottom and unscrew the 8 screws holding on top plate to remove it;

Feck about trying to pull the grills up - the first cm or so is real difficult (there are earthing clips at the bottom pushing the grill outwards) - I found jiggling each side a bit at a time was best way. Once free of earthing clips, best to hold in middle and pull upwards. Front one off;

Very flimsy dust cover

Repeat for rear grill. Then the dust covers - these are a really ingenious design (actually, hats off to Peter Walker - the whole damn thing is simplistic if fiddly to work on!) - they clip onto the main frame, but are really delicate so you must work carefully - ease them away from the frame working in one top corner and gently working across and down. My front dust cover was only fixed at the sides, both top and bottom had already popped out. Once free from frame, they simply lift out (being really careful not to tear them on the exposed uprights );

They are really incredibly flimsy - barely standing up by themselves when free standing;

You are then left to desolder all the poxy wiring - this is the front (HT supplies), same on rear plus the signal wires;

Oh, and I forgot to photograph - but there's another top plate over the top panel that the dust cover secures to - simply lever it upwards to remove, no screws. Top panel is the easiest to remove - only 5 wires & 4 screws;

I decided to strip top panel first, before removing others;

Remove the 3 nuts and bolts in the middle and carefully separate (note there are bloody spacer washers in the middle!). Zero damage to mylar coated film on this panel - but the glue on the stator on the half without the mylar cover had failed at both sides, basically allowing it to flap a bit.

I used epoxy glue to fix the flapping stator half (with a couple of books on top to give pressure until epoxy set), and wood glue to strengthen existing (and seemingly good) joints between stator and plastic on other half. No photos, sorry, but all fairly obvious.

On the next panel the stators appeared fine, but splitting it shows small holes in the mylar film No huge burn damage, and does not look fresh - cleaning with a damp cotton bud removed no black residue. I used wood glue to strengthen existing joints;

Small matching holes also in the stator attached to other half of frame;

While first two panels are fairly easy to remove, last two are bastards with all the shitty wiring and pita retaining clips to remove. I have given up for the day, half way through stripping one side

So - one of the top 2 panels was causing my clicking noise - I think (and really hope!) it was the top panel with it's flapping stator. Otherwise I will need a new panel. Oh, and I really hope wood glue is not conductive!

So I still have music, I connected the Mission 780s I got a while back (for ~£30) up to my single ended valve hybrid monos - a complete mismatch value wise...but sounds remarkably good

More to follow when I rebuild some bloody enthusiasm for the final strip down.

Richard

 

[Dowser]

Interestingly I note the later cream coloured panels came with metal clips to assist holding them together. My black ones don't come with them - is it worth retrofitting & anyone any idea where to get them?

Thanks, Richard

 

[Paul R]

Pretty sure PVA type glue is conductive, it's sometimes used to cover diaphragms for electrostatics. Perhaps it doesn't matter here.

Shame about the arcing.

Paul

 

[misterdog]

I have my 989's to do.

PM me with your e#mail and I'll send you a rebuild guide, with a list of parts if you fancy DIY. membrane replacement.

I have some 3.5Mil. Mylar that has been shipped from Australia.

 

[Dowser]

Thanks Misterdog - you have PM.

I think I will re-assemble the 2 panels I have done already before I go any further...good job I got lazy on Sunday...just to see if they still work. For sure I want to check all panel for flapping stators ultimately.

Richard

 

[634909]

Ref the black Panels - these are the early ones (your serial numbers should confirm this) and there is a thought that they are more rigid than the later panels. I read somewhere that they if you replace panels you should try not to put a 'cream' center panel with a 'black' center panel, but the bass units are OK to have different. Yes you're correct, the black panels don't have the clips, again depending on what you read, they don't need them ( see rigid above).
The black panels are no longer available new - you may be lucky s/h, or you could have it re-built.
AFAIK the new panels ( 989, 2507, 2912...) are all interchangeable with the 63 on which these newer models are based.
If you've got the service manual now you'll see that the dust covers can be re tensioned with a hot air gun.
Good Luck with them, they are excellent when working well.

 

[Dowser]

I put the two panels I refurbished back in today and fired them back up - 2 hours so far, loud volume and bass heavy tracks have not triggered the clicking - yippee, looks like the flapping stator was causing the clicking. I kind of hoped it was - on my 57s I had similar arc damage and it only caused issues at very high volumes and specific tracks. I will try again tonight when it is dark - I have them naked currently, so any arcing will be easy to see

Interesting that piano seems to sound better without the dust covers, metal grills or thick socks. That and maybe slightly better defined edges to notes - need to listen some more.

So now I need to order new socks, strip the original speaker back down and do last 2 panels, then do other speaker too.

In parallel I am going to investigate a different metal grill material I think.

A couple of naked photos - guess I need to cover these up before my girls are with me next weekend

Richard

 

[misterdog]

Glad you have solved your problem.

It has often been mentioned that they sound better naked, rather than buy new socks why
not have some lift off covers made that can be removed when in use.

Maybe like these.

http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/710-5...0001&campid=5338728743&icep_item=271924618599

Have you tried them on stands with the centre of the panel at ear height.

 

[Dowser]

Yep - I've got them on the open metal frame stands now, about same height as your photo - but must admit I fancy modifying them to make them another 10-20cm higher

I think they at least need the dust covers refitting, and for practical purposes with my 8, 7 & 4 year old daughters a sock of some kind. The one without the dust cover, metal grill or sock definitely sounds better - leading edge of notes are harder somehow. But to be honest, given thickness of original metal grill and sock has me surprised the difference is not larger.

I am wondering about just using horizontal rods across the frame and putting a new sock over that. It will be visible I guess, but if it sounds better I don't mind. Google research needed - I know one US company used to offer less dense metal grills.

Richard

 

[Robert]

Superb work Richard.
I wouldn't be worried about those holes in the film - they are tiny and there is no sign of the holes tearing or weakness in the area of the arcing. Larger holes with perhaps pieces of flapping film would be a problem, but not here.

Interesting mechanical design the 63 - looks like it was built using bits from the local B&Q - but it works.

 

[Dowser]

Actually Rob - I missed highlighting this; it's a f*cking fantastic piece of engineering! Lots of DIY store bits and concepts, but all brought together to form a cohesive whole. Once you remove 8 screws from the top panel and lift it off with the top panel plate, the whole thing is wobbly and flappy as hell. But with it in place the structure is whole, solid and non resonating - amazing, especially at the levels I am blowing various Lamb albums through them currently

While I am tempted to just dress the naked one again after listening for 4 hours plus now with no problems, I may as well go through them all and add glue to stator/frame connections as preventative maintenance - peace of mind for next 20 or so years...it's not like I'll be selling them (bad enough I sold my 57s!).

 

[misterdog]

If you wish to keep the dust covers, using a thinner membrane can give improvement according to ER audio.