ELS 57 repair - request from a friend
- Thread starter Nic P
- Start date
yeti42
pfm Member
The late Art Dudley had a couple of columns on rebuilding ESL 57s here’s the first of them.
https://www.stereophile.com/artdudleylistening/606listening/index.html
and here’s the second
https://www.stereophile.com/artdudleylistening/706listening/index.html
They’ll give an idea of what’s involved.
https://www.stereophile.com/artdudleylistening/606listening/index.html
and here’s the second
https://www.stereophile.com/artdudleylistening/706listening/index.html
They’ll give an idea of what’s involved.
I have bought and refurbished at least half a dozen pairs of 57’s over the last decade using parts all supplied by Steve and Ron @ OTA .
I’ve used both stock spec panels and their own design OTEC panels in the various rebuilds never had an issue.
They are certainly an interesting pair of characters
the demo room when I used to visit regularly was their front room with a large workshop based at the bottom of the garden used for panel manufacture and restoration.
These guys have been rebuilding quad electrostatic’s for decades and have a waiting list for good reason. Highly recommended.
I’ve used both stock spec panels and their own design OTEC panels in the various rebuilds never had an issue.
They are certainly an interesting pair of characters
the demo room when I used to visit regularly was their front room with a large workshop based at the bottom of the garden used for panel manufacture and restoration.
These guys have been rebuilding quad electrostatic’s for decades and have a waiting list for good reason. Highly recommended.
I need to have a look at mine, I've had them untouched for 10 years, been playing them regularly. I imagine they must be in need of something. I do have a spare pair, they are so cheap to buy, especially as individuals, that it may be a good route to keeping them original and sound.
tonerei
pfm Member
You sum up my thoughts very similarly although we are of different ages! That is an interesting amp with KT120's you should be getting as clean a picture as is achievable with 57's. A friend summed up the 57's very nicely by making a breast stroke swimming motion when we did a side by side comparison between the 57's and 63's. Your views are similar. I loved the mid-range of the 57's but I came to accept they are more pipes and slippers when given modern music to digest. I had hoped there would have been a large interest in stacking OTA 57's as I would be curious to hear that result. Suppose limited market given how ugly most women would regard that site in their living room
I think I have got the best sound out of the 63's with KT120's and with the more powerful amp I am hugely enjoying listening sessions. Because of Covid I have had no opportunity to let my 'good eared friends' come over to pick apart my belief.
Big John
pfm Member
You sum up my thoughts very similarly although we are of different ages! That is an interesting amp with KT120's you should be getting as clean a picture as is achievable with 57's. A friend summed up the 57's very nicely by making a breast stroke swimming motion when we did a side by side comparison between the 57's and 63's. Your views are similar. I loved the mid-range of the 57's but I came to accept they are more pipes and slippers when given modern music to digest. I had hoped there would have been a large interest in stacking OTA 57's as I would be curious to hear that result. Suppose limited market given how ugly most women would regard that site in their living room
I think I have got the best sound out of the 63's with KT120's and with the more powerful amp I am hugely enjoying listening sessions. Because of Covid I have had no opportunity to let my 'good eared friends' come over to pick apart my belief.
As for age whilst I will never squat 370 kg again I'm told I have quite good ears
I use 1960/70's Russian valves screened fighter/space grade 6N2P & 6N1P drivers in the Rogue Atlas as they have much higher heater voltage Rogue said higher heater voltages would be marginal at best so I made a pair of 9 pin adapters with pins 4 & 5 removed externally & 6.3v dc internally taken to 4 & 5 the power comes from a purpose built Audio Detail regulated PSU pin 9 which is usually missing from fleabay adapters is grounded/earthed , as a result as the mains 241v constant at my flat are cleaner than usual I can connect the Croft phono stage, which Len Gregory aka the cartridgeman suggested I silver wire it uses a pair of 6N2P & 6N6P which has a 800ma heater so larger transformer & 6.3 v dc regulated psu. my Ming Da MC7R pre amp has been dc regulated as well as it also uses 6N2P & 6N1P drivers the end result is I can connect the Croft phono MusicMaster stylus raised full volume the result very very slight hiss 80% for same volume pre Covid 19 for same result the Rogue is a high current amp rated at 100 watts.
Mark Manwaring White who is Ming Da UK & Audio Detail & a friend who has in his listening room in Malvern £30k horns TDL monitors etc + £35k mono valve amps he visited listened to the Quad 57's " So ESL's have no bass I would have these in a heartbeat " .
tonerei
pfm Member
Of course they have bass just not the artificial saturated stuff beloved by many. Sure you can just add a sub if you want that. We have found that a really good source and powerful high quality amp makes all Quads sing. Probably same for most speakers but I think with coil speakers you can get away with a cheaper amp. Quads are less forgiving. The Shelby Lynne test track Just a little lovin' often had the big old cheap chandelier (30 lights in it) tingling with the amount of bass reverb produced at the start of that track from my pair.
@Bigjohn your post say's it all re quality of source and implementation of power supplies and the effect that has.
@Bigjohn your post say's it all re quality of source and implementation of power supplies and the effect that has.
Thank you guys for your input! I actually live in Israel, so it's the same to me, Germany or England...
I'd only ship the actual panels for repair. So that shipping will be much easier, either way.
So it boils down to the aspects of quality (& durability) and cost.
Still undecided, though I am slightly inclined towards OTA.
I'd only ship the actual panels for repair. So that shipping will be much easier, either way.
So it boils down to the aspects of quality (& durability) and cost.
Still undecided, though I am slightly inclined towards OTA.
chartz
If it’s broke fix it!
Yes, on the right note my ESL57's can do that too. I can feel that bass in my armchair too. But they are not disco speakers for sure.
They won't do lower octave stuff either. But they will do acoustic double-bass well if they are sympathetic to your room.
Treble can seem recessed if you are used to conventional, bright dome tweeters. But the truth is that unamplified real instruments don't have that much treble. It depends on what you're looking for. Be warned of that.
The OTA-restored panels can go surprisingly loud, possibly louder than originals.
Big John
pfm Member
In 1984 my first pair of ESL's developed a fizzing noise I was asked to take my speakers to Quad at Huntingdon, I was told by a very nice older man that ESL's prefered long narrow rooms in retrospect I realise the man was Peter Walker himself I was also told that if a certain lady caught a cold repairs to panels stopped as she alone had the ability to get the balance correct? it was a visit/opportunity I wish I had taken more advantage of .
It occurs to me that the very best sounding concert halls ie Vienna use the "Golden Ratio" a long narrow shoe box shape, rather than architects trying to reinvent the wheel with concomitant acoustical problems like the Royal Festival Hall or Albert Hall.
Alistair Robertson-Aikman of SME fame went so far as to dig a trough line with concrete, roof with concrete beams initially he used multiple stacked 57's then 2x 63's in each corner.
A quote from Peter Walker "Another thing people like to do is to use two of our panels, one above the other. This is quite reasonable because it is really a strip source, you can extend the strip source without deteriorating anything. All you do is add 6dB at the bottom and 3 dB everywhere else. It gives you a louder sound, a more impressive sound. That's all right. Adding woofers has never been very good." [ Audio Amateur, 1978 ].
Though some have made sub's work effectively I believe more so with 57's than other speakers sound is room dependent mine works well for 57's 19' x 11' x 8' close to the Golden Ratio probably the dipole reflections like a real performer/s orchestra unlike sealed box speakers that are not so room sensitive, there was an improvement in clarity when we went from carpet to wood flooring. 57's can work in square rooms however placement can be critical. I use OTA "Rupert" stands
I found this https://asa.scitation.org/doi/full/10.1121/1.4944787
It occurs to me that the very best sounding concert halls ie Vienna use the "Golden Ratio" a long narrow shoe box shape, rather than architects trying to reinvent the wheel with concomitant acoustical problems like the Royal Festival Hall or Albert Hall.
Alistair Robertson-Aikman of SME fame went so far as to dig a trough line with concrete, roof with concrete beams initially he used multiple stacked 57's then 2x 63's in each corner.
A quote from Peter Walker "Another thing people like to do is to use two of our panels, one above the other. This is quite reasonable because it is really a strip source, you can extend the strip source without deteriorating anything. All you do is add 6dB at the bottom and 3 dB everywhere else. It gives you a louder sound, a more impressive sound. That's all right. Adding woofers has never been very good." [ Audio Amateur, 1978 ].
Though some have made sub's work effectively I believe more so with 57's than other speakers sound is room dependent mine works well for 57's 19' x 11' x 8' close to the Golden Ratio probably the dipole reflections like a real performer/s orchestra unlike sealed box speakers that are not so room sensitive, there was an improvement in clarity when we went from carpet to wood flooring. 57's can work in square rooms however placement can be critical. I use OTA "Rupert" stands
I found this https://asa.scitation.org/doi/full/10.1121/1.4944787
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tonerei
pfm Member
On longevity I have my pair for 6yrs. They had been done about 2yrs prior to that. In this case Quad had done the work. Always touching wood! they have given me no problems whatsoever throughout ownership. Ditto the 57's which were done by OTA and had similar mileage on the panels. I use my speakers and drive them to reasonably high room filling volumes. Have never had the clamp boards kick in on either of them.
If you google various forums you hear of people activating the clamp boards very soon after buying them. I can only assume these people are just going mad turning up the wick. For me there is a naturally audible upper level that you should drive any speaker to. I accept you can be unfortunate or just get too close to the edge unluckily but I think in a lot of these cases no care is been taken.
As Chartz advised above the 57's go to decent levels. Room filling in my case 15x16ft room with 10ft ceilings. They just can't knock you back against the wall but if you go to those levels you really should be doing it in a warehouse or detached house in the countryside.
