Early Stirling Broadcast LS3/5as with B110s & T27s

[Martyn Miles]

I am always looking for LS3/5as for people and came across an early pair.
Rarely do the Stirling models with Kef drivers come on the market.
Their serial numbers are 88037A/B.

I’ve now found another early pair with serial numbers 88155A/B and assumed these had Kef drivers,
but no.
They weren’t badged V2, but had the later drive units.
As there was only 118 between the two sets of serial numbers, the Kef drivered pair must
be close to the last ones made with B110s/T27s.

Stirling made about 400 LS3/5as with Kef drivers purchased from the Rogers receivership sale.
Later ones had drivers purchased from Kef, before stocks were exhausted.

 

[topoxforddoc]

Nice speakers Martyn. I have a rosewood pair 88010. Bought these without a demo on the basis of KKs LS3/5a shootout almost 20 years ago

 

[yunie_]

Are the kef drivers piece better? I've found one with 88049

 

[sktn77a]

I've seen references to a Stirling Broadcast LS3/5A V1 before. Are these the ones with the KEF drive units?

 

[topoxforddoc]

I've seen references to a Stirling Broadcast LS3/5A V1 before. Are these the ones with the KEF drive units?

Yes, Stirling made a small number of B110/T27 original design LS3/5as back in the early 00s, all with serial number starting 88XXX to appeal to Far East markets. Ken Kessler reviewed them on release and gave them a very favourable review. I bought a pair direct from Stilring at that time and still have them.

 

[regafan]

Of course this all talks up the value of these things
I remember reading on another forum (prob hearsay) years ago that Stirling preferred the original V1 to V2.. Some have alluded that the V2 is more 'hifi'
Would be interesting to see the crossover on the V1 version. Does it have the Drake transformers?

Anyway ssshhh...these small monitors are already far too expensive for what they are.

 

[Tony L]

Would be interesting to see the crossover on the V1 version. Does it have the Drake transformers?

I’d have thought not. Given the fact they were built from parts acquired via buying redundant stock from one of the licensed LS3/5A builders (Rogers I think) the Stirling LS3/5A will be an 11 Ohm version, and these didn’t have transformers. The transformers were only in the original 15 Ohm design (they are in the Falcon).

 

[yunie_]

There's a used pair for USD 1100. Worth it?

 

[Martyn Miles]

There's a used pair for USD 1100. Worth it?

I hadn’t spotted those.

 

[topoxforddoc]

There's a used pair for USD 1100. Worth it?

YES!

 

[MTBBiker]

"I remember reading on another forum (prob hearsay) years ago that Stirling preferred the original V1 to V2."

That's not true !

With the V2 one of the requirements for Derek Hughes to solve was to get the fuller sounding midrange/upper bass of the 15ohm version, which the V2 has but the V1 and all SP1228s B110 LS3/5as don't have. Hence the SEAS bass driver has a custom application of doping to replicate the SP1003 response more.

 

[MTBBiker]

The quickest ways to tell the difference between V1s and V2s are the cabinet wall thickness, which is 12mm for the V1 and 9mm for the V2, and if you can see wires coming out of the tweeter then that's a T27, so it is a V1.

 

[Martyn Miles]

"I remember reading on another forum (prob hearsay) years ago that Stirling preferred the original V1 to V2."

That's not true !

With the V2 one of the requirements for Derek Hughes to solve was to get the fuller sounding midrange/upper bass of the 15ohm version, which the V2 has but the V1 and all SP1228s B110 LS3/5as don't have. Hence the SEAS bass driver has a custom application of doping to replicate the SP1003 response more.

That’s 100% true.
My V2s certainly had a fuller mid./ bass than the V1s.
Not that the V1s sounded anything less than true LS3/5As.
Which they were, of course.

 

[MTBBiker]

That’s 100% true.
My V2s certainly had a fuller mid./ bass than the V1s.
Not that the V1s sounded anything less than true LS3/5As.
Which they were, of course.

which bit - the V2s had fuller bass or that he preferred the V1s to the V2s ?

 

[Meursault]

The quickest ways to tell the difference between V1s and V2s are the cabinet wall thickness, which is 12mm for the V1 and 9mm for the V2, and if you can see wires coming out of the tweeter then that's a T27, so it is a V1.

Some were upgraded to thin wall. Doug sold the boxes and I know many people did it. I don’t know if any were done at the factory.

"I remember reading on another forum (prob hearsay) years ago that Stirling preferred the original V1 to V2."

That's not true !

With the V2 one of the requirements for Derek Hughes to solve was to get the fuller sounding midrange/upper bass of the 15ohm version, which the V2 has but the V1 and all SP1228s B110 LS3/5as don't have. Hence the SEAS bass driver has a custom application of doping to replicate the SP1003 response more.

I think he said different things at different times. I also change my mind about things though so I don’t particularly find that surprising.

Are the kef drivers piece better? I've found one with 88049

I have both. I prefer the V2 but that might be the thin wall cabinet that replicates 001/2. Deeper bass and the treble was a little less peaky.

Of course this all talks up the value of these things
I remember reading on another forum (prob hearsay) years ago that Stirling preferred the original V1 to V2.. Some have alluded that the V2 is more 'hifi'
Would be interesting to see the crossover on the V1 version. Does it have the Drake transformers?

Anyway ssshhh...these small monitors are already far too expensive for what they are.

I don’t remember what was in the crossover but the original was branded KEF. I swapped mine out when Derek Hughes designed an upgraded crossover for the V1 and didn’t keep the original.

I am always looking for LS3/5as for people and came across an early pair.
Rarely do the Stirling models with Kef drivers come on the market.
Their serial numbers are 88037A/B.

I’ve now found another early pair with serial numbers 88155A/B and assumed these had Kef drivers,
but no.
They weren’t badged V2, but had the later drive units.
As there was only 118 between the two sets of serial numbers, the Kef drivered pair must
be close to the last ones made with B110s/T27s.

Stirling made about 400 LS3/5as with Kef drivers purchased from the Rogers receivership sale.
Later ones had drivers purchased from Kef, before stocks were exhausted.

The story at the time was that there was a new batch from KEF. This seemed to stop then Richard Allen bought some of the tooling and seemed to have produced a very small number that were well reviewed but for some reason a number of the British LS3/5a community seemed resistant - I don’t know why - perhaps just a personality clash?
I wonder if some tooling later ended up with Falcon?

 

[Martyn Miles]

which bit - the V2s had fuller bass or that he preferred the V1s to the V2s ?

The V2s had a fuller bass.
He preferred the V2s.
Sorry for the confusion...

 

[MTBBiker]

Some were upgraded to thin wall. Doug sold the boxes and I know many people did it. I don’t know if any were done at the factory.

I think he said different things at different times. I also change my mind about things though so I don’t particularly find that surprising.

I have both. I prefer the V2 but that might be the thin wall cabinet that replicates 001/2. Deeper bass and the treble was a little less peaky.

I don’t remember what was in the crossover but the original was branded KEF. I swapped mine out when Derek Hughes designed an upgraded crossover for the V1 and didn’t keep the original.

The story at the time was that there was a new batch from KEF. This seemed to stop then Richard Allen bought some of the tooling and seemed to have produced a very small number that were well reviewed but for some reason a number of the British LS3/5a community seemed resistant - I don’t know why - perhaps just a personality clash?
I wonder if some tooling later ended up with Falcon?

yes, I am sure I had some thin walled cabinets from Stirling when we did the LS3/5a room at the HiFi News shows in 2001 and 2002 - I had the Cicable crossovers on that pair and the drivers came from the Rogers stock that he bought and sold off.

I never knew that Derek did an upgraded V1 crossover - I remember hearing a pair of V1s at Dougs compared to some Harbeth LS3/5as and the Stirlings were quite a lot smoother, which surprised me.

I think Kef subcontracted SP1228 and T27 manufacture to their Celestion arm and supply was still ongoing when Richard Allen decided to build some. Then Kef decided to get Harbeth involved to take over support and manufacture of the drivers, but I think it was beyond them (probably), and it all dried up. Hence the V2.

 

[Meursault]

yes, I am sure I had some thin walled cabinets from Stirling when we did the LS3/5a room at the HiFi News shows in 2001 and 2002 - I had the Cicable crossovers on that pair and the drivers came from the Rogers stock that he bought and sold off.

I never knew that Derek did an upgraded V1 crossover - I remember hearing a pair of V1s at Dougs compared to some Harbeth LS3/5as and the Stirlings were quite a lot smoother, which surprised me.

I think Kef subcontracted SP1228 and T27 manufacture to their Celestion arm and supply was still ongoing when Richard Allen decided to build some. Then Kef decided to get Harbeth involved to take over support and manufacture of the drivers, but I think it was beyond them (probably), and it all dried up. Hence the V2.

Yes, the Hughes crossover was twice the size. I have never heard the Ciclable.
There was definitely a conversation at the time about Allen getting tooling. I doubt they could have have built them autonomously otherwise.
I’d forgotten the Harbeth bit.
In terms of the hierarchy of mods, the cabinets, Cicables and IFDesigns Tallis stands were the top three with the Tallis beating the AB1 as an improvement for many users.

 

[MTBBiker]

Yes, the Hughes crossover was twice the size. I have never heard the Ciclable.
There was definitely a conversation at the time about Allen getting tooling. I doubt they could have have built them autonomously otherwise.
I’d forgotten the Harbeth bit.
In terms of the hierarchy of mods, the cabinets, Cicables and IFDesigns Tallis stands were the top three with the Tallis beating the AB1 as an improvement for many users.

The AB-1 was limited - I took my pair to Derek to see if could do an improved crossover, but he rejected them as too flawed - hence the AB-2 has a bigger cabinet.

I had the Tallis stands but sold them - maybe I am cloth eared but my Slate Audio ones seemed as good, maybe better when on Mana sound bases - mostly to compensate for them being short...

 

[Meursault]

Yes, the Hughes crossover was twice the size. I have never heard the Ciclable.
There was definitely a conversation at the time about Allen getting tooling. I doubt they could have have built them autonomously otherwise.
I’d forgotten the Harbeth bit.
In terms of the hierarchy of mods, the cabinets, Cicables and IFDesigns Tallis stands were the top three with the Tallis beating the AB1 as an improvement for many users.

There were design issues in the AB1. People put LS3/5a on top and that was a bad idea. The original Rogers ones were entirely chipboard so the materials didn’t match. I don’t know about the Stirling version. Possibly if the designer had more budget, they might have been better.
In the end, my view was puzzlement as to why anyone, other than a collector (which is totally valid), would go the LS3/5a and AB1 when BC1 were so much better and are stand insensitive where the LS is so fussy in setup.
The AB1 designer was a well known figure in the industry. It wasn’t an afterthought.
There were other LS3/5a related stuff that was a lot better. The Rogers amps that they designed for them, the E20 and E40 were excellent albeit that they were the thing that probably killed Rogers.