Dual Conduit USB for audio: the future?
- Thread starter ItemAudio
- Start date
DANOFDANGER
pfm Member
They also need to be isolated from vibration. ()
5th order damping mechanism ???.
sq225917
Bit of this, bit of that
Everyone knows that all dacs are affected by the most microscopic of vibrations. Just like every hifi component they are prone to distortions created by vibration coming on via the mains cables. The special magic pixies make sure these tiniest of unimaginably small and immeasurable vibrations somehow pass through the big buzzy lump of transformer that they are connected to wreak havoc inside your dac, my dac and everyone else's dac.
Anyone who doubt's this is an idiot, so even though I can't see any effect on the output from slapping my dac when it is plugged into an oscilloscope I'm reassured by all those who tell me I must be doing it wrong because they can hear the difference...
cont pg 17.
Anyone who doubt's this is an idiot, so even though I can't see any effect on the output from slapping my dac when it is plugged into an oscilloscope I'm reassured by all those who tell me I must be doing it wrong because they can hear the difference...
cont pg 17.
Vibrations? Not as half cool as visible light!
Sq,
You are so wrong. I have resolved the issue anyway. My DAC has two power cables, one slightly longer than the other thus any vibrations or noise are totally cancelled out!
The first cable was around £500, the second was about £200 more because its longer, but compared to the first cable was a huge upgrade and bang for the buck.
I have paid for them with the latest currency. Strangely while trying to do so one of the virtual coins did not work. This was shocking to say the least. After about a week of work including many late nights I resolved the issue. There was a lot of vibrations going into my laptop due to a demolition in the next town. This it seems caused so much jitter on my hard drive that a bit flipped . A week of calculation later and it was fixed, phew.
I have now mounted the laptop on ten layers of anti vibration steel and the PSU has two powers cables as per the above setup.
Another bonus is the fan used to run at 3000 rpm one minute and 3000.01 rpm the next, most distracting while typing on pfm. This now runs at a constant 3000rpm , perfect!
You are so wrong. I have resolved the issue anyway. My DAC has two power cables, one slightly longer than the other thus any vibrations or noise are totally cancelled out!
The first cable was around £500, the second was about £200 more because its longer, but compared to the first cable was a huge upgrade and bang for the buck.
I have paid for them with the latest currency. Strangely while trying to do so one of the virtual coins did not work. This was shocking to say the least
. After about a week of work including many late nights I resolved the issue. There was a lot of vibrations going into my laptop due to a demolition in the next town. This it seems caused so much jitter on my hard drive that a bit flipped . A week of calculation later and it was fixed, phew.I have now mounted the laptop on ten layers of anti vibration steel and the PSU has two powers cables as per the above setup.
Another bonus is the fan used to run at 3000 rpm one minute and 3000.01 rpm the next, most distracting while typing on pfm. This now runs at a constant 3000rpm , perfect!
Sq,
You are so wrong. I have resolved the issue anyway. My DAC has two power cables, one slightly longer than the other thus any vibrations or noise are totally cancelled out!
The first cable was around £500, the second was about £200 more because its longer, but compared to the first cable was a huge upgrade and bang for the buck.
I have paid for them with the latest currency. Strangely while trying to do so one of the virtual coins did not work. This was shocking to say the least
I have now mounted the laptop on ten layers of anti vibration steel and the PSU has two powers cables as per the above setup.
Another bonus is the fan used to run at 3000 rpm one minute and 3000.01 rpm the next, most distracting while typing on pfm. This now runs at a constant 3000rpm , perfect!
An awesome display of audiophile know-how! I am humbled.
Louballoo
The Squeezebox Touch @ £180 and £6 for the IPeng App is hardly wasting our money when the alternative is running a dedicated computer/laptop which is a PITA to continually put in and out of your system if you need to use the computer for anything else
Lol, I love the fact that Stereo Times are prepared to advertise what a bunch of dumb F_cks they are by being associated with that product.
I believe dumb F_cks more accurately describes their readership, after all Stereo Times are only in it for the money.
Louballoo
Re: the PC - not necessarily, but I'll grant the SBT is a lesser audio crime than a Brennan!
The reliance on external storage (significant extra cost), partial streaming capability, barely-there support for USB DACs, absence of upgrade path - and now no after-sales support, given its obsolescence - are all deal breakers for me - but they're more popular than ever now they've stopped making them. eBay prices seem to have risen.
Maybe people were revolting against the idea in the (recent) past, because it was "new". Maybe it's so ridiculous that even being actively against it is a waste of time. With which I humbly agree.
It's only the "audiophile" part of the technical world that works on magic and sometimes illogical (or missing) definitions of interfaces.
For example - Intel has learned a long time ago that it's good for a CPU to not explode on a division by zero and has designed CPUs that throw an exception in that case. Instead of persuading everyone to avoid dividing by zero.
Another analogy - you can lower the chances of someone entering your house by persuading / bribing every single person in the world. We'll just continue using door locks.
You can RF-proof the computer with linear PSUs, special SATA cables, filters, fancy USB controllers and so on. We'll just continue using DACs that don't care (and/or isolators). Think about it for a second.
Link? I think you may mean SoTM, who don't make USB filters, but do make them for SATA . . .
can someone explain to me why use a two cable solution to usb connection. How many dacs actually make use of the 5volt supply? Of these how many are high quality?
Doesn't this do the job?
http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B000FKP7XA/?tag=pinkfishmedia-21
Doesn't this do the job?
http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B000FKP7XA/?tag=pinkfishmedia-21
This site contains affiliate links for which pink fish media may be compensated.
Ok lets pick the bones out of this one:
1. External storage: I wouldn't be without a back up of my CD rips anyway, so that point becomes moot, plus I don't want a whirring hard drive in the same room as I'm listening to music. Once large SSD drives become affordable, that might change.
2. Partial streaming capability: What's partial about what the SB does? I get all the internet radio I want, all of the files off my NAS box, Spotify, iPlayer, hi-res playback and a load of other stuff if I wanted it. What's missing?
3. Barely there support for USB DACs: Triode's USB DAC plugin addresses this and is still being developed for DACs it doesn't support. OK it's a 3rd party plugin, but who doesn't use 3rd party plugins with computers?
4. Absence of upgrade path: So far, I've done the USB changes, Soundchecks plugins, a better PSU (which made a noticeable difference) and tried different USB cables. I'm now in the process of trying out a USB isolator. How far do you want to go? It's at a point where it sounds good enough for me not to get up and grab the CD out of the rack instead of streaming it. I still do play the CD sometimes, but it's getting less regular.
5. no after sales support - Granted - But a tonne of info on the forums. Everything becomes obsolete at some point.
If you can find me something that sounds better into my 8200CDQ (and so far the Macbook Pro and MacMini have singularly failed at this - which was why I ended up with an SBT in the first place), be more flexible, not look pig ugly or take up a whole shelf, have a nice local interface that also has an intuitive remote interface, be silent, not pollute the rest of my mains supply, play anything I care to throw at it, and not cost multiples of what the SBT did then I am all ears!
The reason they've held their value is because no-one has (yet) made anything as competent at such a good price. They were fools to discontinue it.
sq225917
Bit of this, bit of that
Why you crazy audiophile fool that's nearly eight pounds, what about this one.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0047AALW6/?tag=pinkfishmedia-21
http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0047AALW6/?tag=pinkfishmedia-21
This site contains affiliate links for which pink fish media may be compensated.
hammeredklavier
owner of two very cheap hi-fis
Are they available with a printer-type plug on the end?
This site contains affiliate links for which pink fish media may be compensated.
Digressing, but . . .
2.5" drives in a reasonably insulated case are near-as-dammit silent: properly inaudible from 1m away - so no problem with 'whirring' drives. Secondly, Crucial's new 1Tb M500 is around £450; You can pick up 256Gb drives for around £100. Prices have dropped so far this year, SSD is finally affordable now. And if you need a PC/NAS to store your CD rips, what is point of Squeezebox?
Many, but not all, radio stations. Many, but not all, file formats. No DRM-protected iTunes playback. No video streaming. No BBC radio 'listen again' support' without (ta-da!) a computer. Also limitations on the size and format of attached drives and memory sticks.
The plug-in part-addresses the problem: most USB DACs you'll actually want to buy require bespoke drivers that are not Squeezebox-compatible. Feel the pain of the closed OS.
You have a point about the PSU upgrades - but that still doesn't score over a PC which can similarly be upgraded. Ditto USB mods. You can't compare the open-ended nature of a conventional OS with a proprietary system: changing cooling, power, drives, software, digital output (SOtM, Adnaco, soundcards), etc is a breeze with a computer and upgrades are coming thick and fast.
Aune S1? For USB into the 8200CDQ, you might try building a T1 for £350. But it sounds like you've fettled your SBT pretty thoroughly: in terms of SQ via SPDIF, you probably would have to spend at least as much, or more, to find an improvement. With most DACs, you can't simply jack in a Mac and expect epiphany.
They were certainly popular; surely they could have sold many more if they hadn't discontinued it: it's hard to see the reasoning behind that. The bottom line is that anything the SBT does, the PC can do better, with added versatility. You have look past a lot of facts to love a Squeezebox.
2.5" drives in a reasonably insulated case are near-as-dammit silent: properly inaudible from 1m away - so no problem with 'whirring' drives. Secondly, Crucial's new 1Tb M500 is around £450; You can pick up 256Gb drives for around £100. Prices have dropped so far this year, SSD is finally affordable now. And if you need a PC/NAS to store your CD rips, what is point of Squeezebox?
Many, but not all, radio stations. Many, but not all, file formats. No DRM-protected iTunes playback. No video streaming. No BBC radio 'listen again' support' without (ta-da!) a computer. Also limitations on the size and format of attached drives and memory sticks.
The plug-in part-addresses the problem: most USB DACs you'll actually want to buy require bespoke drivers that are not Squeezebox-compatible. Feel the pain of the closed OS.
You have a point about the PSU upgrades - but that still doesn't score over a PC which can similarly be upgraded. Ditto USB mods. You can't compare the open-ended nature of a conventional OS with a proprietary system: changing cooling, power, drives, software, digital output (SOtM, Adnaco, soundcards), etc is a breeze with a computer and upgrades are coming thick and fast.
I'm still using Windows XP (from 2001). Plenty about that on forums, too: more, I suspect than the Squeezebox.
Aune S1? For USB into the 8200CDQ, you might try building a T1 for £350. But it sounds like you've fettled your SBT pretty thoroughly: in terms of SQ via SPDIF, you probably would have to spend at least as much, or more, to find an improvement. With most DACs, you can't simply jack in a Mac and expect epiphany.
They were certainly popular; surely they could have sold many more if they hadn't discontinued it: it's hard to see the reasoning behind that. The bottom line is that anything the SBT does, the PC can do better, with added versatility. You have look past a lot of facts to love a Squeezebox.
Great idea: it's what a forum is for, right? I'll start a new thread . . .
Doesn't this do the job?
It's heading in the right direction - we sell [plug alert] the Microtik dual-conduit cable, plus gender changer, plus a linear power supply for £29.
This site contains affiliate links for which pink fish media may be compensated.