advertisement


Drawn to a sugden

Paulq2 said:
I'd welcome your opinion. I am currently going to put a new system together and have some constraints on space where the amp would not have a lot of air able to move around it. I have read a lot recently as I am keen to buy something decent rather than a lot of the mainstream options available. A SH Sugden A21 was top of my list but I am concerned, realistically, about the heat dissipation in my environment to the point I think it wouldn't be a good idea. It's a small room and am not interested in mega wpc as it doesn't mean anything to me - just quality components.

Serious question - what else, brand/amp-wise, would you suggest looking at for a similar standard, please? I'd likely spend up to £1500 max. I'd looked at the Denon higher end offerings but know nothing about them and a Rega but both only tentatively.
Click to expand...
Do you have speakers or know what you want? I’d start there then get the right amp to drive them.
 
I'm sure I asked this before, but my searching has let me down ... is there an easy to understand list/diagram of the last few a21 models? I've heard mention of SE, Signature, Mk2 etc etc. Thanks.
 
Really there are only 2 current production ones : the A21a Signature and the A21SE Signature, the difference being reflected in their respective prices - the latter being the Special Edition with higher output (30w) and stiffer power supply as opposed to the 23w of the A21a Signature. Sound-wise, the SE sounds like "bigger" amp and therefore IMHO doesn´t "lose the plot" at higher volumes but it´s a question of taste. Both have motorised volume pots. The previous ones had the same names but without the Signature epithet on the front of the amp. I´ve never been able to ascertain the differences circuit-wise apart from the odd component manufacturer and silver wiring and sound-wise, it depends which one you own. Many swear by the A21a arguing it retains the sweeter sound of its predecessors while the A21SE, in use, seems much more powerful despite the mere 7w difference on paper - in fact with my A21SE I use attenuators to better control the "slope" of the Alps Blue volume pot which can be a bit severe at the beginning if you turn it up manually. The slowness of the remote helps remedy this but , myself , I never use it, hence the attenuators.
Of the older A21a there were several small variations such as block capital or cursive printing in gold lettering, and a yellow on/off button but they are all basically the same, slightly lower powered in theory but in practise no-one seemed to mind too much - it just meant choosing your speakers with a bit more care.
 
@Neil P you might find this page of interest https://neophonics.com/heritage/
Early on in this thread I asked a similar question about the models, and Chris answered it there too :) https://pinkfishmedia.net/forum/threads/drawn-to-a-sugden.263790/page-6#post-4585509

Not long after I posted that (and after too many coffees) I grabbed a 2005 A21al and it is probably the best move I've made regarding amps. I have ProAc Studio 118 speakers and the combination is the best I've heard in my small-ish room.
 
deek said:
@Neil P you might find this page of interest https://neophonics.com/heritage/
Early on in this thread I asked a similar question about the models, and Chris answered it there too :) https://pinkfishmedia.net/forum/threads/drawn-to-a-sugden.263790/page-6#post-4585509

Not long after I posted that (and after too many coffees) I grabbed a 2005 A21al and it is probably the best move I've made regarding amps. I have ProAc Studio 118 speakers and the combination is the best I've heard in my small-ish room.
Click to expand...

Thank you. I had a feeling I'd seen the question/answer before! :)
 
torstoi said:
The Compass with 89dB is unlikely to let a Sugden a21 show what it can do.
The Kan is 86dB, so the Compass is a bit better than that, but I think the a21 needs really good efficient speakers,
but then it's capable of incredible performance.

The Sugden Stemfoort 60 and 100 both have a bit of a different tonality to the a21
and both paired with the best possible matching speakers, those 2 come nearwhere close an a21
in sound quality potential.

I think the Stemfoorts are for a different kind of audience, they have a more powerful appearing presentation,
more emphasis on grunt and bass...so are probably better suited for less efficient speakers.
But that comes at a cost in fine details and finesse.
Not that they are bad, far from that..
I would personally really avoid the 60 though..it fell through for me a bit bc it had neither the strengths of the a21 noor the 100..
For less effiecient speakers and a rock/pop dominated listening, the 100 is great.
For chamber music and Jazz the a21 is a dream with the right speakers.

Wait for a 100 to pop up & don't go for a 60, you'll be glad if you do.
Click to expand...
Which amplifiers would you recommend for a Shahinian Compass?
 
I had a sugden A48b from the 1990s until 2010. Definitely a war musical sound. Replaced it with a valve amp. Never put a foot wrong.
 
Neil P said:
As per various threads of the last few months I'm trying to find an amp that matches well with my high sensitivity speakers (96db). I noticed a Sugden integrated in the classifieds this wknd but couldn't buy it as I need to sell some kit first.

Could the people with sugden experience enlighten me on the sound? Pros & Cons?

Music wise I listen to anything (but 75% neil young/pink floyd type music), at moderate levels in a 6x4m room.
Click to expand...
I would definitely try before you buy. Like all hifi something that works in one system may not in another. I only have experience of Sugden in power amp form with 105db horns (in theory the ideal partners) - IA4 as a power amp and the big monos.
In my system I found them both to have a very strange sound, being slow and heavy in the bass whilst having a scratchy treble and upper mid range.

I listen to similar music to you.
Of all the power amps I’ve had the Sugdens were one of my least favourite, even the Benchmark (which I thought was very over rated and undeserving of its reputation) was much more even handed, smoother, detailed and way better in the bass.

After trying both of the Sugdens I ended up buying a used pair of Boulders bottom of the range 860 monos (£4k) and they were in a different league to the aforementioned.
 
Thetiminator said:
I would definitely try before you buy. Like all hifi something that works in one system may not in another. I only have experience of Sugden in power amp form with 105db horns (in theory the ideal partners) - IA4 as a power amp and the big monos.
In my system I found them both to have a very strange sound, being slow and heavy in the bass whilst having a scratchy treble and upper mid range.

I listen to similar music to you.
Of all the power amps I’ve had the Sugdens were one of my least favourite, even the Benchmark (which I thought was very over rated and undeserving of its reputation) was much more even handed, smoother, detailed and way better in the bass.

After trying both of the Sugdens I ended up buying a used pair of Boulders bottom of the range 860 monos (£4k) and they were in a different league to the aforementioned.
Click to expand...
Very original. I can honestly say that as a Sugden user since 1975 and nigh on 50 years poring through all the UK hifi mags and more recently on line that´s the very first outrightly negative review I have ever read about Sugden gear. I must say I´d hardly consider some 106dB horns as ideal partners for the IA4 as a pre (I presume) with the big monos (the Grandes ?) but each to his own.
If the Sugden treble sounded scratchy, I hate to think how they would sound with 99% of the rest of this world´s amps.
 
Chris said:
Very original. I can honestly say that as a Sugden user since 1975 and nigh on 50 years poring through all the UK hifi mags and more recently on line that´s the very first outrightly negative review I have ever read about Sugden gear. I must say I´d hardly consider some 106dB horns as ideal partners for the IA4 as a pre (I presume) with the big monos (the Grandes ?) but each to his own.
If the Sugden treble sounded scratchy, I hate to think how they would sound with 99% of the rest of this world´s amps.
Click to expand...
No as I said clearly in my post I was using the IA4 as a power amp only (Kevin at Definive’s recommendation as the very least amp I could get away with my speakers). After trying that I then tried the big monos.

No need to get out of your pram as I wasn’t trying to diss the brand as I’m positive they suit many people’s preference and systems. Just with my speakers they were probably my least favourite of possibly 20-30 amps I have had or tried over the years.

Like you say though it’ll be the speaker’s fault…bloody Living Voice horns…pieces of sh*t 🙄😉

And of course every high end system you’ve ever seen uses Sugden amps…
 
Chris said:
he very first outrightly negative review I have ever read about Sugden gear. I must say I´d hardly consider some 106dB horns as ideal partners for the IA4 as a pre (I presume) with the big monos (the Grandes ?) but each to his own.
Click to expand...
Just about the only criticism I've read/heard about Sugdens with 'ordinary' (i.e. 86 to 92 dB) speakers is from those who have gone to valved amplification; if indeed that it a criticism. However, I speak from received wisdom (re. Sugden, not valves). Anyway, I'd certainly have valved preamplification with whatever power. ( currently and forever EAR).
 
I had a Sugden pure class A and Luxman 590ax (also pure class a). Strangely, I felt the Sugden could have done with tone controls to inject some warmth into the proceedings. Whereas the Luxman had warmth a-plenty in bypass mode, and didn’t need tone controls at all, which it had!! I dunno, hi-fi is really baffling…..
 
Two brands you cannot criticise on here, Sugden & Rega;)

Sugden is a bit of an outlier in terms of its requirements, I personally wouldn’t have a class A amp but YMMV.
 
Woodface said:
Two brands you cannot criticise on here, Sugden & Rega;)

Sugden is a bit of an outlier in terms of its requirements, I personally wouldn’t have a class A amp but YMMV.
Click to expand...
Same here. I always thought Class A was just the way I needed to go, so I tried loads but I never liked any of them. Always inconsistent across the frequency range, lacked clarity and heavy on the bass to my ears…suppose it all depends on what music you listen to and like everything in hifi - system dependant.
 
Thetiminator said:
And of course every high end system you’ve ever seen uses Sugden amps…
Click to expand...
If you read my post I didn´t say what you understood. To start off, I have neither seen nor heard any 106dB horns and I don’t know what high end means. none of my speakers have ever passed the threshold of 88 or 89 dB. What little I mayhave read about hyper efficient horns was their use with 2w valve amps , certainly not with SS amps of 40w. I also have no idea of how one would go about using a IA4 integrated as a power amp, hence my assumption thatyou meant to say pre and not power. Over warm bass and scratchy treble ??????? Whatever transpired with your Sugden trial, you did not hear what many people consider the Sugden sound nor anything remotely close to it.
 
Thetiminator said:
Same here. I always thought Class A was just the way I needed to go, so I tried loads but I never liked any of them. Always inconsistent across the frequency range, lacked clarity and heavy on the bass to my ears…suppose it all depends on what music you listen to and like everything in hifi - system dependant.
Click to expand...
It just seems a very inefficient technology which must be less reliable in the long term?
 
I agree with the earlier poster re the need for Sugden power amps to be paired with a matching Sugden pre. I have a MC AA pa and MC LA-4 pre and although I have heard other systems that are as good, I’ve never heard anything better.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.


advertisement


Back
Top