dieudonné and the new fascists

[vuk]

not sure if this news has much traction outside of france, but the thought police are out in full force. this is a very good article:

http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/01/01/the-bete-noire-of-the-french-establishment/


the french jewish community should be ashamed of itself and so should all their sycophants.


vuk.

 

[Guest432]

wasn't there a photo recently with someone famous where all the kids were doing the quenelle?

 

[Greg]

not sure if this news has much traction outside of france, but the thought police are out in full force. this is a very good article:

http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/01/01/the-bete-noire-of-the-french-establishment/


the french jewish community should be ashamed of itself and so should all their sycophants.


vuk.

vuk, I think this issue is much more nuanced than you appear to recognise.

Dieudonné M’Bala M’Bala is unquestionably an anti-Semite and the gesture and the culture which is emerging around it - such as posted photos of people gesturing the quenelle at the gates of Auschwitz, or next to Israeli police officers - is walking a very thin line, quite deliberately, to express ant-Semitism but in a way that falls the right side of legislation.

Nicolas Anelka - a close friend of M’Bala M’Bala - has recently been in the UK press for appearing to gesture the quenelle after scoring a goal.

The debate (IMO) isn't really whether it is intended to be anti-Semitic, but whether there should be any change to legislation. If legislation is changed and individuals pursued then where does it end?

 

[vuk]

Dieudonné M’Bala M’Bala is unquestionably an anti-Semite

can you please explain to me exactly how and why he should be punished for it?



vuk.

 

[Greg]

can you please explain to me exactly how and why he should be punished for it?



vuk.

I didn't say he should be - I don't think he should be "silenced" - but that doesn't mean he isn't a self-confessed, active and influential anti-Semite. I think I plainly acknowledged the difficult question about legislation and without legislation.

He is (if I recall correctly) an outspoken "holocaust denier" and I suppose there maybe some scope for him to be pursued under the Gayssot Act (i.e. without new legislation.

The opening paragraph of the CounterPunch article seems to be deliberately misleading:
"French mainstream media and politicians are starting off the New Year with a shared resolution for 2014: permanently muzzle a Franco-African comedian who is getting to be too popular among young people."

The implication is the establishment wants to silence him because his popularity amongst young people rather than because of the controversial nature of that growing popularity.

 

[Steven Toy]

Vuk, should anti-Muslims be punished?

 

[amazement]

Vuk, should anti-Muslims be punished?

Or anti Christian?

 

[kasperhauser]

Or anti Christian?

Or Auntie Mame?

 

[vuk]

He is (if I recall correctly) an outspoken "holocaust denier"

that doesn't seem to be at the heart of the current controversy, nor have i come across him saying anything along those lines. so what we have is that you think you recall correctly. (note: i am not implying that denial of any sort should be grounds for punishing any man).


vuk.

 

[vuk]

Vuk, should anti-Muslims be punished?

no. thought and speech are not crimes. actions are. so are orders--like the ones cheney, bush, blair and obama have given to slaughter muslims, among others.


vuk.

 

[mmterror]

Basically, the powers that be do not want any political activists, satirists or commentators stirring up dissent against their agenda.

I reckon within 5 years you'll see Have I got News for You and Mock the Week taken off the air in the UK. Replaced with Celebrity Arsehole Washing up Challenge due to them 'being a bit tired' and needing to 'freshen up the schedule'.

Can't have the masses starting to think "Yeah you're right! They ARE screwing us!"

 

[Greg]

Basically, the powers that be do not want any political activists, satirists or commentators stirring up dissent against their agenda.

I reckon within 5 years you'll see Have I got News for You and Mock the Week taken off the air in the UK. Replaced with Celebrity Arsehole Washing up Challenge due to them 'being a bit tired' and needing to 'freshen up the schedule'.

Can't have the masses starting to think "Yeah you're right! They ARE screwing us!"

I think this ^^ is a fundamental misintretation of the issue in France.

 

[mmterror]

I think this ^^ is a fundamental misintretation of the issue in France.

Maybe slightly in this particular case but I think there is a growing force against anyone who stands up and says different. When 10-20 years ago such people would have been applauded.

Now the tame media labels them as activists/terrorists or nutters.

 

[Greg]

Maybe slightly in this particular case but I think there is a growing force against anyone who stands up and says different. When 10-20 years ago such people would have been applauded.

Now the tame media labels them as activists/terrorists or nutters.

in this case the something different is open and persistent anti-Semitism within the format of comedy. You're saying 10-20 years ago that would have been applauded?

 

[mmterror]

Dunno, is he funny though?

 

[Tigerjones]

all the kids were doing the quenelle?

Pike?

 

[Greg]

Dunno, is he funny though?

I would imagine about as funny as Nick Griffin, but I've no idea as I don't speak French very well.

 

[Bob McC]

concerning the broadcast journalist Patrick Cohen Dieudonne said, and was recorded saying, "When I hear him talking, I say to myself: Patrick Cohen, hmm... the gas chambers… what a shame."

I'd lock him up for that personally.

 

[mmterror]

Well as I hadn't heard of him till yesterday and I'm sure many others too, I'll be guessing he'll be on a world tour in a few weeks?

Gun meet foot.

 

[vuk]

I would imagine about as funny as Nick Griffin, but I've no idea as I don't speak French very well.

how then can you judge the man? i have a feeling this why i find your views so completely at odds with the evidence. he is very bright, articulate, charismatic and funny. he is also extremely critical of the political elites and that is a resounding theme. this anti-semitism tar brush is an under-handed and dishonest tactic.


vuk.