advertisement


Diet ideas - what actually works?

The bottom line is to lose weight is going to feel uncomfortable. It also is a denial of things so psychologically uncomfortable too. I presume these new tablets remove these discomforts to some degree. My key strategy is not to have stuff in the house like chocolate or cake, it’s awful. Someone gave me a carrot cake the other day, ate it all in a couple of days. Free cake is your enemy.
 
Anecdotally I think one of the commonest reasons people fail to maintain a long term healthy diet is because they believe "carbs are bad". I don't read about fad diets but I am guessing this is where this misinformation comes from.

Or perhaps it comes from the person's experience of cutting all carbs and losing weight, ergo carbs must be bad. Wrong. You cut calories and lost weight, it doesn't matter which food group you chopped, you will lose weight when you cut calories.. But the problem is your chopped carb diet needs to be something you can sustain to keep the weight from coming back....... that's where the problems start.

Its been said already in this thread, but here goes with my attempt:

All carbs breakdown and release sugar into your body, but they do so at different rates. Its this rate that defines whether the carb is a good source of energy that will sustain your activity between meals or will spike your blood sugar levels and force your body to convert the sugar to fat. High sugar rate release carbs have what's termed a high glycemic index, aka the enemy of the fit and healthy. Conversely the low glycemic index carbs are our best source of energy, embrace these in your diet.

The internet has tables of all of the common food types showing their glycemic index.
 
Do you remember Olestra?
Of course I remember Olestra! I was in dairy NPD at the time, developing Shape low cal yogurt. Fat replacements were absolutely front. sides and centre of my life at that time. We looked at it but there were regulatory difficulties in using it and still calling the product yogurt. That's before we started with the big problem of an oily substance that your body can't digest. If it's not being digested, where does it go? Oh dear. Ladies and gentlemen, may I introduce you to anal seepage?
Also eating is a fundamental pleasure in life and when you take away the ability to satisfy it ( eg through surgery) some people get depressed for pretty obvious reasons.
Part of what happened to my friend who had stomach reduction. The medics don't look enough at what's happening in people's heads.
 
From my own experience of switching to a healthy diet, at first it seemed bland and unfulfilling. But as long as you completely ditch the bad but tasty food you soon stop missing it. Then you become happy with your healthy diet. Your mind adjusts to the new diet and lets you live happily ever after.
I refer you to my thoughts on herbs, spices and sauces. Broccoli or cauliflower are thought to be boring, usually because over cooked, but when al dente can be transformed by a light dusting of paprika or cayenne.
 
High sugar rate release carbs have what's termed a high glycemic index, aka the enemy of the fit and healthy. Conversely the low glycemic index carbs are our best source of energy, embrace these in your diet. The internet has tables of all of the common food types showing their glycemic index.

Yes, glycemic index is pretty critical. Eggs have pretty much zero GI and are your friends when dieting.
 
Yes, glycemic index is pretty critical. Eggs have pretty much zero GI and are your friends when dieting.
The GI of different foods can be surprising too. Chocolate has a medium GI as all the fat slows absorption. Mashed potato has a super-high GI. I love a big portion of buttery mash but as a T1 diabetic it sends my blood sugar through the roof : (
 
  • Like
Reactions: gez
Commendable, but it has to be something you can do for the rest of your life- can you go without spuds, pasta, rice and bread forever? It's a lot easier just eating what you like but keeping in a calorie deficit.
No you can't deny yourself the carbs once the weight has come off. And that's the next part of the "diet" which is portion control and eating the right foods which has already been mentioned. We don't want to live like jockeys. The biggest challenge is keeping the weight off once it's off.
 
What are your grounds for suggesting that food pack declarations are misleading? The current norm is for these to be measured by a contract lab based on multiple accurate samples made up to the precisely correct recipe. These are normally accurate enough for mixed food samples. Cue someone saying "yes but what about the sweetcorn effect where it goes through undigested?". Yes, but that's only important if you live on sweetcorn. Otherwise it is lost in the noise.

Even the current bete noire, ultra processed food, has accurate enough calorie figures based on conventional calculations cf analysis.

The biggest cause of errors in calorie declaration in packaged foods is, ironically, poor weight control and resultant product giveaway. You'd be surprised how many packs are fairly significantly overweight and giving away free food and calories.
Ironically, given the more homogeneous nature of processed foods the accuracy for such foods is probably higher. Personally, I have no reason to doubt the calorific figures on the side of food packaging. There have been some fairly high profile cases of innaccuracy historically, but those are almost certainly outliers.

That said, I've had cause to doubt some of the carb values on some products recently. They don't seem to tie in with my understanding of

a) How dry weight converts to cooked weight (for rice or pasta for example)
b) The stated carb content of supermarket rice/pasta products

For example: I once took the time to weigh the rice in a microwave indian meal. Based on the presumption of the cooked to dry weight relationship and the carb content of basmati rice, I approximated that the meal had approx half the carb content that the packaging said. Now I'm aware that the sauce in the "meat" section of the meal will have some carb content, probably some level of added sugar, but I found it really difficult to believe (given the apparent quantity of sauce) that there'd be an equal amount of carbs in the sauce as there was in the rice. I can't recall the exact figures now, but it was in the order of 44g of carbs stated on the packaging and my calculation showing the rice being about 20-22g. 20g of sugar based carbs in the sauce? (sauce was tomato based).
 
That's exactly my point. Calorimetrically measured calories may not correspond to calories absorbed.

AIUI the more a raw food is processed the higher the proportion of the advertized calories for a food get absorbed. Yes on average I don't really care about the noise but my assumption is that if someone changes diet then that may make more of a difference than calorie counting reveals.

However I think you are saying that even that is in the noise too. Do I have that right?
I don't believe that's even relevant. To the best of my knowlege any study in to diets etc has always worked on the calorific values of the food consumed, not on the believed amount of calories the body actually absorbed.
 
Calorie deficit. The end. You can lose weight eating cream cakes.
Totally true, but you'll become very unhealthy in the not so long run
Lost nearly seven stone in about 6 months by cutting out bread, spuds, rice and pasta. Also stopped the sugary stuff and alcohol. Exercised fairly vigorously for about 30 minutes a day. You can eat as much veg/meat/fish and even dairy as you like. The weight comes off easily to begin with it gets harder as you approach your ideal weight. Carbs are difficult to give up. They are quite addictive.
But the nuance that's totally lost in that change is the fact that by subsituting carbs with veg (which are carbs too btw - just far lower % than rice etc), meat etc you will have significantly lowered your calorific intake without realising it, and it's that, not the macronutrient change, that lead to the weight loss.
 
Prompted by the usual Christmas bloat a couple of years ago my wife and I decided to change our eating habits to lose some excess weight. I had gone from 104Kg to 108Kg over the Christmas period.

Guided by my wife, we adopted a No/low carb, Keto style approach quite strictly for 6 months. At the end of this period my weight had gone down to 90Kg. From my perspective, cutting out my usual copious quantities of craft ale was probably a significant contribution to my success! Gin and red wine served as suitable substitutes however (not necessarily in the same glass mind).

I didn't find this new regime particularly challenging, in fact I enjoyed the novelty in changing menus and finding suitable ingredient substitutes. This included things like; Keto bread recipes using egg whites and almond or coconut flour; celeriac and swede instead of potatoes; cauliflower rice; shredded cabbage instead of spaghetti/pasta etc.

We did allow ourselves the odd day off after the first three months, and have in the last year been less strict overall. I now allow myself the odd beer and am back to my home made bread for breakfast toast. My average weight in the last six months now hovers around 94Kg. My wife achieved her weight loss goal also.

I think that the key is in the mindset, supported by a bit of knowledge about what you are eating, as per the comments above about GI, portion size and so on. We are both active in any event, my wife plays tennis at least twice a week, and we both walk and swim regularly.

The only disadvantage has been the expense on new clothes to fit our reduced sizes!
 
Anecdotally I think one of the commonest reasons people fail to maintain a long term healthy diet is because they believe "carbs are bad". I don't read about fad diets but I am guessing this is where this misinformation comes from.

Or perhaps it comes from the person's experience of cutting all carbs and losing weight, ergo carbs must be bad. Wrong. You cut calories and lost weight, it doesn't matter which food group you chopped, you will lose weight when you cut calories.. But the problem is your chopped carb diet needs to be something you can sustain to keep the weight from coming back....... that's where the problems start.

Its been said already in this thread, but here goes with my attempt:

All carbs breakdown and release sugar into your body, but they do so at different rates. Its this rate that defines whether the carb is a good source of energy that will sustain your activity between meals or will spike your blood sugar levels and force your body to convert the sugar to fat. High sugar rate release carbs have what's termed a high glycemic index, aka the enemy of the fit and healthy. Conversely the low glycemic index carbs are our best source of energy, embrace these in your diet.

The internet has tables of all of the common food types showing their glycemic index.
All true, but it must be rememembered that the body can also convert protein and fat to bodily fat stores. The mechansims are less efficient and non preferencial but they exist and do occur. The carbs=fat and protein doesn't is the biggest myth of modern dietary fads.

Plus it's not GI alone that leads to the conversion of blood sugar to fatty tissue, it's the Glycemic Load. As you say, its the blood sugar levels that matter, and high ones can be achieved by either eating lowish quanties of high GI foods or (relatively) higher quantities of low GI foods. This applies to the risk for Type 2 Diabetes too. A person can still get T2D from eating only low GI foods, if they consume too much of them over a long enough time.
 
Ironically, given the more homogeneous nature of processed foods the accuracy for such foods is probably higher. Personally, I have no reason to doubt the calorific figures on the side of food packaging. There have been some fairly high profile cases of innaccuracy historically, but those are almost certainly outliers.
They are generally accurate. I do have a habit of reading the panel and sense checking the results, sometimes the arithmetic is wrong. Aldi are particularly bad at this IME.
That said, I've had cause to doubt some of the carb values on some products recently. They don't seem to tie in with my understanding of

a) How dry weight converts to cooked weight (for rice or pasta for example)
b) The stated carb content of supermarket rice/pasta products

For example: I once took the time to weigh the rice in a microwave indian meal. Based on the presumption of the cooked to dry weight relationship and the carb content of basmati rice, I approximated that the meal had approx half the carb content that the packaging said. Now I'm aware that the sauce in the "meat" section of the meal will have some carb content, probably some level of added sugar, but I found it really difficult to believe (given the apparent quantity of sauce) that there'd be an equal amount of carbs in the sauce as there was in the rice. I can't recall the exact figures now, but it was in the order of 44g of carbs stated on the packaging and my calculation showing the rice being about 20-22g. 20g of sugar based carbs in the sauce? (sauce was tomato based).
Hmm, interesting. Obviously without the pack in question I couldn't check it. Do be aware however that naturally occurring sugars can be quite high, onions are about 7% iirc, tomatoes similar. Tom puree can be double conc so 15% sugar. Put a good glug of that in a dish, it does taste good and it thickens it up nicely, and you can very easily add a few grams of naturally occurring sugar before you have thrown in a little bit of corn starch to raise the viscosity a bit.

As I said earlier, people overthink the nutritional content bit, especially the degree of precision they think that they need. Reasonable approximations are just that, reasonable and close enough. Unless you are an elite athlete working on the last 5% of body fat, it's unnecessary. For all the rest of us, just cutting out the crap and eating controlled portions of normal food is enough. You'll see your weight decline to a normal, healthy level over the course of a few weeks or months, if you stick to it. If you stick to it. As the chap upthread said, he lost weight and reckoned that a major contributor was, who knew, reducing the amount of craft ale consumed. Who knew? That's tough though, especially if you like a drink.
 
The bottom line is to lose weight is going to feel uncomfortable.
I'm not convinced that it is. I've done it. You have to concentrate and you have to execute constraint, but it doesn't have to be actually uncomfortable.
It also is a denial of things so psychologically uncomfortable too.
Well now, you're talking. This IS the hard bit.

I don't believe that's even relevant. To the best of my knowlege any study in to diets etc has always worked on the calorific values of the food consumed, not on the believed amount of calories the body actually absorbed.
It is. There have even been studies made where people have been put into an insulated box and food calories in compared with waste product calories out calculated. Lo and behold, the calories in and out all stack up. The calories extracted are close to what you would get from a bomb calorimeter. Yes, there are a few calories in undigested food that drop out as waste, and of course faecal material itself contains calories, albeit not in a form you would want to use, but the model as a whole works as well as it needs to. "Humans are not bomb calorimeters!" you may hear. No, they aren't, but they are close enough approximations to one.

As I keep saying, it's not about what goes on in your digestive tract. That's just going to do what it needs to do. The thing that makes or breaks it is your mind.
 
I'm not convinced that it is. I've done it. You have to concentrate and you have to execute constraint, but it doesn't have to be actually uncomfortable.

Well now, you're talking. This IS the hard bit.


It is. There have even been studies made where people have been put into an insulated box and food calories in compared with waste product calories out calculated. Lo and behold, the calories in and out all stack up. The calories extracted are close to what you would get from a bomb calorimeter. Yes, there are a few calories in undigested food that drop out as waste, and of course faecal material itself contains calories, albeit not in a form you would want to use, but the model as a whole works as well as it needs to. "Humans are not bomb calorimeters!" you may hear. No, they aren't, but they are close enough approximations to one.

As I keep saying, it's not about what goes on in your digestive tract. That's just going to do what it needs to do. The thing that makes or breaks it is your mind.
I have no doubt that's the case, however my point was though that as far as I'm aware the majority of "diet" studies in to weight loss/control etc, have based the calorific intake of the subjects on the known properties of the food being eaten. Most such studies are fairly simple, they tell people to eat foods x, y, z in given portion sizes over a period of time and they track the weight changes and possibly body composition. Maybe all those studies were aware of the results of such studies as you mention, and that's why they didn't go to the effort (as it was unnecessary), but I have my doubts personally. I'd put my money on most of the people doing the studies just doing it the easy way, to keep things as simple and low cost as possible.

Of course athletic performance studies are something entirely different and are much more likely to go int to VO2 Max measurements or CO2 output etc as well.
 
I don't believe that's even relevant. To the best of my knowlege any study in to diets etc has always worked on the calorific values of the food consumed, not on the believed amount of calories the body actually absorbed.

If you're after a slight correction look for Metabolisable energy, it's what we use all the time.

Different for different digestive systems obvs. Broadly similar but if you're fattening a million chickens the detail is relevant.
 
I have no doubt that's the case, however my point was though that as far as I'm aware the majority of "diet" studies in to weight loss/control etc, have based the calorific intake of the subjects on the known properties of the food being eaten. Most such studies are fairly simple, they tell people to eat foods x, y, z in given portion sizes over a period of time and they track the weight changes and possibly body composition. Maybe all those studies were aware of the results of such studies as you mention, and that's why they didn't go to the effort (as it was unnecessary), but I have my doubts personally. I'd put my money on most of the people doing the studies just doing it the easy way, to keep things as simple and low cost as possible.

Of course athletic performance studies are something entirely different and are much more likely to go int to VO2 Max measurements or CO2 output etc as well.

Kenneth Blaxter did the basic research many years ago; but not much about athletic performance!

I've forgotten most of it now.
 
One trick is not to beat yourself up and give in if you have a whole day or weekend off the wagon, as long as over the long term you keep at it and the good outweighs the bad you'll be fine. Nobody got fat from one day of bad eating.
 
Diet plans are like HiFi interconnects
some time back, a million people realised that they could make money from the idea, and now? It's getting weird becuse all the real and sensible truth is just not very trendy, but
If you eat healthy food when you are hungry, and meanwhile, exercise as much as you can
and follow that lifestyle for a few months
you'll look and feel a lot better.
 


advertisement


Back
Top