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DACs vs Turntables

I'm sat here listening to REM - Out Of Time on my Technics TT
It (to me at least) sounds amazing
I genuinely don't care what it sounded like when it was recorded, I love the "sound" of my system and to me that's all that matters
Would a decent DAC outperform this?
Who knows? define "outperform"? I'm sure we'd all have a different take on this and how would you quantify it?
Interesting thread though
 
I agree.
However, the builders working next door had some diabolically un-bland pop music blaring out on their "site" radio all day. Give me bland music over vocodered sh!te every time! ;)

110 % agree.
Everytime I have the misfortune to hear Heart FM in Taxi's,Barbers,Supermarkets it puts me in a fuc*ed off foul mood.
You nailed it vocordered shite,every song sounds the same and all vocals just sung threw a vocoder....painful...even worse than Skat Jazz and I hate that too.

Even threw the best Turntable or Dac it would still sound shite
 
I'm sat here listening to REM - Out Of Time on my Technics TT
It (to me at least) sounds amazing
I genuinely don't care what it sounded like when it was recorded, I love the "sound" of my system and to me that's all that matters
Would a decent DAC outperform this?
Who knows? define "outperform"? I'm sure we'd all have a different take on this and how would you quantify it?
Interesting thread though
Orange Crush is always an entertaining ‘test track’. This is one of the few albums I have on both formats but I have never compared them, I doubt I’d hear a massive difference.
 
Orange Crush is always an entertaining ‘test track’. This is one of the few albums I have on both formats but I have never compared them, I doubt I’d hear a massive difference.

Orange Crush is a personal fave, it'd be interesting if you tried both formats just to hear your opinion
 
Orange Crush is a personal fave, it'd be interesting if you tried both formats just to hear your opinion

Great album from a great band, sound quality/production/mastering is equally good on both CD and LP of Out of Time, the Lps of Document & Murmur are better than the CDs from the same era.
 
Orange Crush is a personal fave, it'd be interesting if you tried both formats just to hear your opinion
Just realised I am much mistaken, it is Murmer I have on LP & CD. The latter is a deluxe remaster which is clearer but somehow not quite as compelling.
 
Just realised I am much mistaken, it is Murmer I have on LP & CD. The latter is a deluxe remaster which is clearer but somehow not quite as compelling.

The REM CDs that I have would have been bought by my brother at the time of release or at least during the late eighties and early nineties, probably at the same time as I was buying the Lps, my brother gave them to me as he has a habit of buying boxsets, remasters and deluxe versions of his favourite bands and albums.
 
Is it the recording that is the work of art or is it the performance that it captures (be it acoustic or digital)? If I buy a print of a painting, is it the print itself that is the art or is the art in the image that it portrays to my retina?

The "input signal" is an amalgamation of vibrations on microphone diaphragms, electrical currents from instruments plugged straight into the mixing desk, direct digital synthesis, and analog or digital processing of these signals. The recording is not music. It is merely one component in the remote conveyance of music to your ears. The art ended the moment it was recorded. Since only one component of that original chain, the microphone diaphragms, captures the movement of air caused by sound waves in the studio, and there is a whole mountain of other things on top of that component that alter the signal, to claim that the air movements caused by your speakers are somehow more or less accurate to the sound waves moving the air in the studio is nonsense.

And then, by the way, the recording first takes a trip to the mastering engineer, whose job isn't to make sure that the recording "stays true" to the sound in the studio, in which case they would just do nothing. Instead the mastering engineer alters the recording further to ensure that it will sound "good" on as wide of a variety of systems as possible.

So your quest to achieve perfection is quixotic at best because there is no standard by which "perfection" can possibly be measured. Low distortion of your components cannot account for all the other alterations that happened along the way. Nor can it account for distortions caused by your room, the shape of your head, the shape of your ears, the state of your ear canals, etc. Better to accept that distortion will happen and use it to your advantage to shape the sound so that it is most pleasing to you. If that means near 0 distortion in your DAC, fine, but keep in mind that that is merely your objective, not the objective.

“Quixotic”

Excellent, new to me and an excellent addition to my vocabulary. And it’s not even 8am yet. I guess I should read the book.
 
I like the word organic. I think it’s a good choice for describing a vinyl sound. One of the nicest sounding vinyls I have is Joe Jackson live. It has a lovely immediacy and a wraparound sound as though you are sitting at a table in the middle of the audience.Also Sinatra at the Sands. The beauty of these recordings is that they give you greater insight into what makes a great voice, musician etc. You just hear a little more.

Love Joe Jackson, I enjoy most of his studio albums, but don't have a live one. Which out of the seven or so he's done were you referring to?

PS: listening to Body and Soul now on vinyl, great recording. My CD version is starting to suffer from 'rot'.
 
PS: listening to Body and Soul now on vinyl, great recording. My CD version is starting to suffer from 'rot'.
Really? Body & Soul was my first CD, purchased in September 1985, second-hand. Not a very long time ago I actually checked it for signs of said rot but could not find any (there are a few minor scratches from first owner but nothing serious).
 
Is it the recording that is the work of art or is it the performance that it captures (be it acoustic or digital)? If I buy a print of a painting, is it the print itself that is the art or is the art in the image that it portrays to my retina?
It is the recording, particularly in pop music. Classical music recordings may attempt to provide an illusion of the real thing in real time and space but even that illusion is a result of multiple conscious artistic choices made by the performers, recording engineers, producers etc.

The "input signal" is an amalgamation of vibrations on microphone diaphragms, electrical currents from instruments plugged straight into the mixing desk, direct digital synthesis, and analog or digital processing of these signals. The recording is not music. It is merely one component in the remote conveyance of music to your ears. The art ended the moment it was recorded.
See above.

So your quest to achieve perfection is quixotic at best because there is no standard by which "perfection" can possibly be measured.
On the production side this is true of course. But the end result -the final recording - is the reference (warts and all), the standard by which perfection should be measured on the reproduction side. It is quite possible that we will never achieve ultimate perfection, but we must at least proceed to that direction to the best of our ability.
 
It is the recording, particularly in pop music. Classical music recordings may attempt to provide an illusion of the real thing in real time and space but even that illusion is a result of multiple conscious artistic choices made by the performers, recording engineers, producers etc.


See above.


On the production side this is true of course. But the end result -the final recording - is the reference (warts and all), the standard by which perfection should be measured on the reproduction side. It is quite possible that we will never achieve ultimate perfection, but we must at least proceed to that direction to the best of our ability.

I couldn't disagree more strongly. The art of music is in the composition (edit: and, where applicable, the performance), not in the act of recording it. Even where composition and recording overlap with each other, such as in pop or electronic music, the art is still in the creative choices that produce the structured alterations in air pressure, hopefully pleasing, that our brains interpret as music, not the technical decisions that tune the recording. The recording is merely a vehicle that allows the art and the audience to be separated in time and space. As the recording, as we all agree, cannot actually capture a live performance, it is, itself, without reference, therefore while you can use it as a reference in defining your hi-fi objective if you want to, it is by no means absolute.

To return to my earlier analogy, if I have a print of the Mona Lisa, the print is merely a way for me to appreciate the art. It is not, itself, the Mona Lisa. Or even clearer: if I have a utilitarian photograph of the Winged Victory of Samothrace, that photograph conveys the art of the sculpture, but the photograph itself is not the art.
 
Love Joe Jackson, I enjoy most of his studio albums, but don't have a live one. Which out of the seven or so he's done were you referring to?

PS: listening to Body and Soul now on vinyl, great recording. My CD version is starting to suffer from 'rot'.

Not sure which he was referring to but this one - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Live_1980/86 - is to my ears fantastic. I was lucky to see Joe play at Radio City Music Hall around '86 I think and whole band was marvellous.
 
2 audiophiles go to a Michelin starred restaurant, one enjoys the creation the chef has prepared, the other asks for some salt and ketchup, with some fresh coriander sprinkled on top.

No ketchup for me thanks.

Analogue V digital, I have both and enjoy both equally.
They can both sound nigh on identical, though one cost £ 9K and the other cost £ 800.

Distortion and noise from my DAC is 0.00007 %, about as free from ketchup as is currently possible.
 
2 audiophiles go to a Michelin starred restaurant, one enjoys the creation the chef has prepared, the other asks for some salt and ketchup, with some fresh coriander sprinkled on top.

No ketchup for me thanks.

Analogue V digital, I have both and enjoy both equally.
They can both sound nigh on identical, though one cost £ 9K and the other cost £ 800.

Distortion and noise from my DAC is 0.00007 %, about as free from ketchup as is currently possible.

That's an inaccurate analogy. Better would be "2 audiophiles download the same recipe from a Michelin starred chef. Both attempt to recreate the recipe as carefully as possible. One has purchased SI-approved measuring spoons, the other hasn't. The former claims that their cooked dish is closer to the recipe because their ingredient measurements were more accurate, the other thinks that theirs tastes better."

Notice that, a) the recipe isn't the dish and b) aside from being the source of the recipe, the chef doesn't actually come into it at the time of comparison.
 
Dunno... I have seen many prints of Jackson Pollack paintings. Like most wondered what on earth it was about, just silly paint drips.

In New York I saw a real one (vastly bigger than you might have thought) on the wall. Just WOW - it hits you - there is a 3 dimensionality to it that is entirely missed in the print. You can look 'into' the real thing, you can only look 'at' the print.

But in our little Hi Fi world, I do not think that analogue LP replay 'betters' a digital file rendering.
 


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