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Dac upgrade. Thoughts/suggestions welcome

C

Cootie

Member
Hi there,

Current system is Auralic Aries / Vega, Gato Audio Amp 150AE and Focal 1028Be.

Very happy with my system but now have the itch and budget that is causing me to think about a potential upgrade in the next month or two, if for nothing other than I can.

I’m erring towards a Dac upgrade and thinking that may allow for a move to the Gato monoblocs later this year or next (Amp 150 is very impressive which has made me curious about how good the monoblocs are).

Current thinking is Auralic Vega G2/G2.1, PS Audio Directstream, or Mytek Manhattan II. Looking for something that has a decent pre section if I do go down the monobloc route in future. Any thoughts / experience with any of these three or any similar alternatives you might recommend?

Cheers
 
There was a g2 in classifieds recently , probably still available

Using the dac as a pre would be a backwards step in my opinion
 
I had an Auralic Aries and Vega G2. Recently sold them both after a dem with a dCS Bartok which is far superior in every way. I ended up buying a Rossini DAC and clock.

The pre in the Bartok is very decent, much better than the pre in the Auralic, and would probably not hold back your system, but YMMV.
 
To echo hifinutts and uncl_nigel's comments In my experience unless the DAC has a exceptional pre built In, i think you may find the benefits of a dac upgrade would be masked by the damage done by going direct to the power amps.

if you could demo the following 2 systems this might answer this for you

Aries / Vega / Gato Preamp / Gato Monoblocks

Aries / Vega G2.1 / Gato Monoblocks

of course the danger of this is you actually buy

Aries / Vega G2.1 / Gato Preamp / Gato Monoblocks !
 
Appreciate the input Phil. Both the Auralic and Mytek have proper analogue pre-amps, hence my thinking but would probably weigh them up, in due course, to standalone pre-amps.
 
First step would be any DAC into the Gato integrated and wouldn’t rule out that quelling ‘the itch’ as the amp is really very good indeed and I reckon easily good enough to take a pretty serious dac (and in due course speaker) upgrade.
 
Cootie said:
Appreciate the input Phil. Both the Auralic and Mytek have proper analogue pre-amps, hence my thinking but would probably weigh them up, in due course, to standalone pre-amps.
Click to expand...

i doubt whether they can match a decent pre amp for musicality but its worth a try !!!
 
Cootie said:
First step would be any DAC into the Gato integrated and wouldn’t rule out that quelling ‘the itch’ as the amp is really very good indeed and I reckon easily good enough to take a pretty serious dac (and in due course speaker) upgrade.
Click to expand...

EMM Labs/Meitner Audio's new MA3 DAC/Pre Amp/Streamer is also worth a look. According to EMM Labs their/MA3's VControl™ "maintains the input signal without re-quantization allowing for complete transparency at any volume setting, wide attenuation range, and no loss of audio resolution." After having used the MA3 with components such as ATI's AT522 NC, ATC's P2, ATC SCM40A's and ATC SCM100ASL's I can say that so far this lives up to EMM Labs claim. The MA3 can be also be used as DAC with an integrated amp or pre amp. Simply set the volume/output level to 0.0dB to achieve unity gain.

Btw, as expected of Ed Meitner the MA3 sounds fab :)
 
I was enjoying the Signature version of this last night...

L1464852.jpeg


With full R2R technology as well as a number of linear power supplies the sound is sublime...

Link
 
Cootie said:
Hi there,

Current system is Auralic Aries / Vega, Gato Audio Amp 150AE and Focal 1028Be.

Very happy with my system but now have the itch and budget that is causing me to think about a potential upgrade in the next month or two, if for nothing other than I can.

I’m erring towards a Dac upgrade and thinking that may allow for a move to the Gato monoblocs later this year or next (Amp 150 is very impressive which has made me curious about how good the monoblocs are).

Current thinking is Auralic Vega G2/G2.1, PS Audio Directstream, or Mytek Manhattan II. Looking for something that has a decent pre section if I do go down the monobloc route in future. Any thoughts / experience with any of these three or any similar alternatives you might recommend?

Cheers
Click to expand...
Are you able to demo, borrow or home loan the 3 contenders you listed? I’ve owned/borrowed/heard a fair few DACs recently, especially over the lockdowns, the only reasonably priced one I would really be happy with as a Pre/DAC is the RME ADI-2 FS, beyond that both the dCS Bartok & Rossini are very good as preamps, I’ve tried both direct into power amps. The Rossini was only here a few days and will need to come back on loan from HiFi Corner before I’m sure a preamp isn’t needed with it, selling my Amps would fund the swap from Bartok to Rossini. I’ve gone back to using the Bartok as solely a DAC.

Don’t think your Gato has a split Pre Power section, so you’d need to borrow a power amp or two to get a feel for the preamp performance of the DACs yourself.

The Auralic Aries G2 and Vega G2 connected via lightning link is an excellent front end, the link does work better than the more usual connections between the two units. The Aries G2.1 has a tweaked USB interface to make it more reliable with a wider variety of hard disks. The Vega G2.1 is identical inside as are the Leo and Sirius. If MQA matters to you at all, Mytek has a problem with MQA decoding, their entire range is undergoing a refresh so likely be sorted in the new Empire, Brooklyn and Manhattan lines. Auralic handle MQA in a non licensed way and don’t seem to have any probs.

I use ROON so don’t worry about any supplied Apps apart from using them for firmware updates, there are some decent Apps and some poor ones out there, most kit works with ROON these days only one I am aware of that shuns it is Aurendar. Auralic doesn’t support Android.

I replaced an Auralic Aries G2/Vega G2/Leo GX with a Bartok and likely will move to Rossini/Clock soonish.

ATB
Gus
 
Unless you need a Preamp for various analogue inputs, in a digital only system removing it will always brings an upgrade in my experience. Even the one in the DAC should be bypassed if possible. Nowadays I'm such a convert to no Preamp that I can't see how it could be neutral let alone improve SQ. I use software for volume control.
YMMV.
 
Nostromo, many people, including me, disagree with you but I dare say it’s system dependent.
 
nostromo said:
Unless you need a Preamp for various analogue inputs, in a digital only system removing it will always brings an upgrade in my experience. Even the one in the DAC should be bypassed if possible. Nowadays I'm such a convert to no Preamp that I can't see how it could be neutral let alone improve SQ. I use software for volume control.
YMMV.
Click to expand...

Not in my experience and there is a good reason why...
 
G T Audio said:
Not in my experience and there is a good reason why...
Click to expand...
Is this to match the output voltage for the power amp? This I concede may necessitate a Preamp, in which case its quality is important.

Otherwise extra cables, circuits and power supplies must be detrimental in my view. But I'm open to listening, so perhaps it's better if I rephrase my post.

The OP may like to try a DAC, perhaps his current one, without the Preamp in the chain. Carefully of course as software can easily send out full volume which could damage the speakers.
 
Amber Audio said:
Are you able to demo, borrow or home loan the 3 contenders you listed? I’ve owned/borrowed/heard a fair few DACs recently, especially over the lockdowns, the only reasonably priced one I would really be happy with as a Pre/DAC is the RME ADI-2 FS, beyond that both the dCS Bartok & Rossini are very good as preamps, I’ve tried both direct into power amps. The Rossini was only here a few days and will need to come back on loan from HiFi Corner before I’m sure a preamp isn’t needed with it, selling my Amps would fund the swap from Bartok to Rossini. I’ve gone back to using the Bartok as solely a DAC.

...

ATB
Gus
Click to expand...


I had a chance to compare the RME ADI-2 FS in my naim system as a pure DAC (into 102/TeddyDualCap) and as a pre/DAC (straight into 250) and preferred the pre/DAC by a wide margin so I kept it and sold the pre/ps. Detail and transparency improve a lot, maybe some may find the sound fatiguing over long time, honestly I don’t. I heard some other pre/DAC and must say, in most cases the sound is again more transparent, but somehow thinner. It misses the “body” and involvement, I don’t experience this loss with the RME.

Same in my other system that consists of a TeddyDAC with volume control (although if I get it right, this is an actual pre section built inside the DAC case) into a TP ST60 power amp.
 
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