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DAC paralysis

Thanks guys for your responses!

I use the Harbeth on the 4 ohm taps of the amp, most speakers works better on the 4 ohm taps with my amp IMO.

I also have an SMSL A300 class D amp. It's more neutral than the tube amp, and might even be more detailed. When I feel the tube amp too syrupy I would switch to this $200 amp. But invariably I would also switch back to the tube amp. I can't put a finger as to why, may be it also has a little bit of that D90SE sound.

My budget would be around the Denafrips Pontus price. If I concentrate long enough and manage to grow another kidney, I might get to the Venus territory. I would exhaust my chakra way before I get to the Terminator's neighbourhood. As to the ballpark figure I need to spend so that the Harbeth is not wasted on me, I would like to know if anyone can shed some light.

Why another DAC? Two reasons:

1. I heard Harbeth speakers fed by some old Benchmark DAC and some old Parasound integraded amp, I was quite impressed. They are known to be neutral sounding electronics, and they don't sound dry to me. Whereas my electronics are known to be more on the euphonic side. Depending on my mood and the recording, sometimes they are nice, sometimes they are a touch too coloured.

2. This might be subjective, but I think components in a system should be close enough in quality. As of now the total cost of my eletronics cost about 1/3 of the Harbeth. Of course cost does not equate sound quality, nor the Harbeth is known to be a value king. I suspect the Harbeth would benefit from better electronics than what I have, particularly those that excel in midrange clarity and neutrality.

The Denafrips Ares 2 sounds a touch dry to me with my Triangle Comete 40th Anniversary. If I swap the Gold Lion KT77 for the Psvane EL34 it would sound more liquid at the expense of some detail. But if I have to do this, I might as well sell the Ares 2 and just keep the Rega, which what I did.

I also tried a Marantz PM6007 with the built in DAC with the Triangle Comete 40th Anniversary. the built in DAC actually sound really close to the Rega DAC, and don't sound dry. Nor did the Topping D90SE. I theorise the Ares 2 do not like paper midrange driver. Back then I didn't have the Harbeth yet, so they might work fine together.

I also question if R2R DACs are for me, or do I even need a fancy DAC? Hence me considering Audiolab stuffs since they are mainstream and have a reputation for neutrality.

I am not really considering tube DACs that are known to be coloured sounding. The exception is the Musical Paradise tube DACs, it seems that with the right tube and capacitor combination they can be made to sound neutral?

If I were to get one of the Chinese DACs, my shortlist would be:
- Denafrips Pontus
- Gustard R26
- Gustard A26
- May be the Musical Paradise DAC

If I were to for an easier and less exotic route, my short list would be:
- Audiolab M-DAC+ (DAC, preamp)
- Audiolab 9000A (amp with built in DAC)
- Denon A110 (amp with built in DAC)
- NAD C658 (streamer, DAC, preamp)
 
I am not really considering tube DACs that are known to be coloured sounding. The exception is the Musical Paradise tube DACs, it seems that with the right tube and capacitor combination they can be made to sound neutral?

They are however excessively popular ... if you put a jolida dac on here at a decent price you would have a queue !! there is a reason for that
 
Paul Hindle said:
I can highly recommend the Teddy DAC.
Click to expand...
I second the advice about the Teddy DAC.
There are 2 or 3 versions about, with volume control, without and both.
I have the VC version, it doesn't grab you at first but after a couple of hours you realise you realise this is much closer to what is on the recording than other DACs.
But perhaps you don't want that.
 
Hi @Navyblue ,

I think you are sensible to listen and not jump.

I do enjoy R2R Dacs and have owned Audio Note and Border Patrol, NOS, and Naim DAC; amongst a range of others.

Currently I am using a Qutest powered by an SBooster and fed by a dCS Network Bridge & Chord M-Scaler. My intention was to upgrade the Qutest. I have been listening to a range of DACs and of these I particularly liked the Chord TT2 & Benchmark DAC3 HGC. Both very good in subtly different ways - and for me that is the point, are the differences enough to get me listening & enjoying more?

For instance, I do prefer the Chord TT2. In particular I enjoy its bass presentation ......but, the Qutest is a tad more resolving in the mid-range.

Currently I am awaiting the Dave 2 in the expectation that Dave second hand prices will drop. I am certainly NOT going to listen one until the prices are more 'reasonable'.

Who knows, even then I may just stick.

I have started using Roon which I have found to make a positive difference.

M
 
 
I have spent the last couple of years trying to find my ideal DAC. For this purpose I have bought numerous S/H DACs at good prices and sold them on if they did not totally convince me with their musical interpretation. Most were very good but I thought there were probably better DACs out there. DACs tried in rough order of preference.

Lab12 Reference 1 (favourite)
Pontus 2
BMC UltraDac
DiDiT 212
Linn Renew Akurate DS
Chord Hugo mk1
Lindemann Musicbook source,

I have owned the Lab12 Reference 1 (NOS valve DAC) the longest and have no intention of selling it. It's construction is unique as it uses eight old school Philips 1543 chips in the DAC section and two EH 6922 valves in the output stage. In my system it sounds sweet, detailed, tonally correct and very musical. By far the best DAC I have owned but not necessarily the most impressive at the first hearing. Only negatives are, it has no volume control or headphone output. Obviously just because it works so well in my system does not mean it will in any other but it might be worth an audition as a left field alternative.
 
I have heard the Gustard R26 in three different systems and the sound ranged from utterly superlative in every way to soft and mushy, depending on the system. It benefits tremendously from a good external clock. If I had to buy a DAC tomorrow it would be this or the A26 without a doubt.
 
the caretaker said:
A DAC sounding dry? What does that mean?
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"Dry" sound means lacking reverb. In pro audio it's the sound of a (close-)mic feed. Adding a reverd effect will make the sound "wet".

In the context of reproduction of recorded music it is usually associated with harmonic and other signal-correlated distortion, one of the reasons why some people prefer vinyl over digital and low-power valves into insufficiently sensitive speakers.
 
Navyblue said:
My current DAC is the original Rega DAC, I had it for more than a decade now. In recent years I have been trying to upgrade it, but I have not found a worthy successor.

My amp is Line Magnetic LM-211ia. My speakers are the Harbeth C7-ES3 40th anniversary. I told myself I am done upgrading speaker. My electronics lagged behind the speakers, at least in price tag. But for now I am just going to ignore the amp and focus on the DAC first. I'm looking forward to the day where my system is optimized and I just have to worry about what music to listen to.
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I'm not sure that's how I would approach this. DACs do sound different but not as different as amplifiers. If you seek a different sound, I'm not sure focusing on the DAC is the best approach. If you are broadly happy but slightly restless/curious (it's an audiophile thing), a different DAC may give you a different flavour but retain most of what you currently enjoy.

I must have had 10-12 DACs myself and have often found myself falling for the sound (or, dangerously, other people's reports of the sound) of DAC X, to intall and enjoy DAC X for a while, only to find myself going round the loop again a few weeks or months later. This has particularly happened with R2R DACs where I've loved the rounder, more organic (analogue?) sound initially but quickly realised I am losing something in the detail and crispness which makes me listen for longer: the delicate brush of a cymbal, the pluck of a double bass or the in-the-room attack of percussion; best R2R I've had here was Metrum Pavane L3, a cracker, but ultimately I settled elsewhere. At the more clinical, transparent end of things, perhaps it was the aesthetics/user interface of the RME ADI-2 which put me off but I simply couldn't get into it.

Good luck, and do report back.
 
FWIW I did a really careful dem of my Chord 2Qute fed by a Stack Audio Link and DC2 LPSU and the Audial S4 (on its own) yesterday (don't ask why). The Audial was more cohesive and dynamic, the Chord more etched. The Audial was better in two different systems I can switch between in seconds but the differences are slight and if you took one away I could happily live with the other. I have previously done the same with the RME ADI-2 and also a Micromega MyDac so, yes, DACs I have sound more alike than different.
 
Thanks guys for your inputs and ideas. The Bryston DAC is particularly interesting to me.

At the moment I ruled out the Audiolab 9000a, because it has a screen. Those things don't age gracefully. For an amp I expect them to last upwards of a decade. For a DAC it might be more acceptable as those do get long in the tooth somewhat.

For now I am leaning towards the Pontus 2 12th anniversary, because it's has "12th anniversary" in the name and don't have a screen. But the R26 is not out of the race yet. If I am going for D/S DACs, I guess it might be one of the Benchmark or the Bryston.

I am aware of how similar things can sound. I'll give you my example. I have 2 sets of speakers powered by their own amps at the same listening position. Currently the Harbeth C7-ES3 40th anniversary is connected to the Line Magnetic tube amp. The Triangle Comete 40th anniversary is connected to the SMSL class D amp and a small subwoofer. So soft dome vs metal dome tweeter, plastic vs paper woofer, tube class AB vs SS class D, big vs small box, sub vs no sub, 3 times price difference. Despite such different setup, there are times where I have to look at the amp to see which speakers are playing. Not all the time, but at least some of the time with some materials. Of course I am the one that put them together so the systems are voiced somewhat similarly. Recording and mood also matters.

Like I said earlier, with the wrong mood and material, the said combo can sound a touch sweet. So I am not looking for adjective like warm, tubey, or analog. If I want those I will still have the Rega. I'm looking for pin point imaging, neutrality, detail without dryness. I listen to different setup depending on my mood, but I only have one DAC, unless you count my AV receivers, which I also listen to on occasion.

The DAC will be added first, the amp will be next.
 
Mr Underhill said:
Hi @Navyblue ,

I think you are sensible to listen and not jump.

I do enjoy R2R Dacs and have owned Audio Note and Border Patrol, NOS, and Naim DAC; amongst a range of others.

Currently I am using a Qutest powered by an SBooster and fed by a dCS Network Bridge & Chord M-Scaler. My intention was to upgrade the Qutest. I have been listening to a range of DACs and of these I particularly liked the Chord TT2 & Benchmark DAC3 HGC. Both very good in subtly different ways - and for me that is the point, are the differences enough to get me listening & enjoying more?

For instance, I do prefer the Chord TT2. In particular I enjoy its bass presentation ......but, the Qutest is a tad more resolving in the mid-range.

Currently I am awaiting the Dave 2 in the expectation that Dave second hand prices will drop. I am certainly NOT going to listen one until the prices are more 'reasonable'.

Who knows, even then I may just stick.

I have started using Roon which I have found to make a positive difference.

M
Click to expand...

When you're ready to get your mind blown, get a Plixir Elite BDC for your Qutest (with Statement DC cable).
 
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