DAC experts.. what’s as good as…
- Thread starter Eoin
- Start date
analog_roots
New Member
The Weiss 202 came out in 2011? And was $7-$8K US...but can be had for ~$2K now. Are you asking what is under current used Weiss 202 prices that would sound as good? Maybe post your ideal budget range.
Eoin
pfm Member
That would be it. No ‘budget’.
The question is given the 202 is 12 years old, what else might be around that would have a similar performance…
I know there are some on PFM that have tried a lot of different DACs
Heard one last night straight into a Quad 606 and it was absolutely extraordinary.
The question is given the 202 is 12 years old, what else might be around that would have a similar performance…
I know there are some on PFM that have tried a lot of different DACs
Heard one last night straight into a Quad 606 and it was absolutely extraordinary.
JezmondTutu
pfm Member
Sorry about that Eoin! 
I expect some will tell you a £200 Chinese DAC will sound just as good.
I expect some will tell you a £200 Chinese DAC will sound just as good.
JezmondTutu
pfm Member
You definitely had twinfold benefits; digital preamp and the DAC thus avoiding your Quad preamp. But I do think it would take a lot of beating despite its age.
tuga
Legal Alien
"As good as" is relative or subjective, only you can answer that.
Other than the RME ADI-2 FS DAC (used w/ AKM-chip) which I own, I'd be looking at the Gustard DAC-A22 and DAC-A26 and DAC-R26, the TEAC UD-701N, the Singxer SDA-6 PRO2, the Holo Cyan 2, the Bricasti M21 and M3 and the T+A DAC 200.
I have not heard any of the Weiss DACs but a very good friend with money has and has heard or owned many including Bryston, Chord Dave, Mola Mola Tambaqui and more. He has now settled on a Musetec 005 and claims he prefers this to all others. It seems not very well known but priced at around $3000 would appear to be exceptional value if indeed his claims are true. I do trust his ears but without hearing for myself can't offer an opinion.
His system comprises one of my DIY line stages, Mark Levinson 33H monos into Magico 5 speakers.
Also another very long informative thread on this DAC on the above forum.
His system comprises one of my DIY line stages, Mark Levinson 33H monos into Magico 5 speakers.
Also another very long informative thread on this DAC on the above forum.
I have to say garbage in garbage out,this is the weiss for me.
Eoin
pfm Member
I wonder if ASR are perhaps not measuring the right things, given the disparity between their measurement findings and what people hear from the units. There doesn’t seem to be much thought about tying up the measurement results with a critical listen.
I.e. I’m not sure they’ve much idea to what extent the ear and brain are responding to the imperfections seen. And I’m not sure they’ve got a full suite of measurements that are telling the full story…
Or, why do some of the units they are finding sub par on the bench seem to be found to sound good and some of the perfect measuring ones not come up to scratch on the ear? Not much thought seems to be put into that question
I think the measurements are valid but possibly too simple. They must be if they’re not matching up to what the ear hears.
Interesting though.
I.e. I’m not sure they’ve much idea to what extent the ear and brain are responding to the imperfections seen. And I’m not sure they’ve got a full suite of measurements that are telling the full story…
Or, why do some of the units they are finding sub par on the bench seem to be found to sound good and some of the perfect measuring ones not come up to scratch on the ear? Not much thought seems to be put into that question
I think the measurements are valid but possibly too simple. They must be if they’re not matching up to what the ear hears.
Interesting though.
According to my observations dacs usually go in 3x price steps. So to be relatively safe in terms of next step performance it may be essential to spend 3 times (sure, there’re are always used or ex-demo bargains out there, it’s just a rough example). Brand becomes not so important in this case, any decent weiss/lampizator/dcs/audio note/chord… is a good dac.
Eoin
pfm Member
Current Dac is lovely. Beresford Caiman with an upgraded PSU. With my Ruark Crusaders and a freshly serviced Quad606 I wasn’t expecting a massive difference with Jez’s Weiss, I didn’t think the amp and speakers would be good enough to show a much difference. I thought it might be a subtle change.
Wrong!
Very clear immediately totally different and massively massively better. Puts you in mind of Linn’s old ‘source first’ mantra.
To be fair I’m probably underestimating the Quad and Crusader speakers. We tried Jez’s top notch Avondale power amp, the upgraded ZAP 250 as well but the star was the Weiss Dac straight into the 606. Just the old ‘more of everything’ really and in spades. Not even close to a subtle change.
I’ll have to try the Beresford into the 606 direct, it’s got an (analogue) volume control on it so it knocks the Well Tempered out of the system but it’ll show how good or not the Beresford is.
I suspect the 66 pre may be a weak link, but it did show (to me) that DACs aren’t all close in performance in a modest system.
Wrong!
Very clear immediately totally different and massively massively better. Puts you in mind of Linn’s old ‘source first’ mantra.
To be fair I’m probably underestimating the Quad and Crusader speakers. We tried Jez’s top notch Avondale power amp, the upgraded ZAP 250 as well but the star was the Weiss Dac straight into the 606. Just the old ‘more of everything’ really and in spades. Not even close to a subtle change.
I’ll have to try the Beresford into the 606 direct, it’s got an (analogue) volume control on it so it knocks the Well Tempered out of the system but it’ll show how good or not the Beresford is.
I suspect the 66 pre may be a weak link, but it did show (to me) that DACs aren’t all close in performance in a modest system.
colasblue
pfm Member
I strongly suspect that ASR are measuring exactly the right things, and Weiss usually scored pretty well relatively when their products were newly released.
The problem is that people find some forms of distortion enjoyable which is why we still have loads of equipment stuffed full of thermionic valves and tantalum capacitors.
You could invest £200 in something topping made fairly recently and which scores well and see what you get. If you don't like you can move on at little or no loss. You might just be surprised!
The problem is that people find some forms of distortion enjoyable which is why we still have loads of equipment stuffed full of thermionic valves and tantalum capacitors.
You could invest £200 in something topping made fairly recently and which scores well and see what you get. If you don't like you can move on at little or no loss. You might just be surprised!