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Curing the Patented Naim Hiss? Possible?

PD I agree that noise in the Naim circuit is due to it having a high gain, however it doesn't explain why the other preamp I built is silent in comparison.
It is the same circuit with the same gain.
The only differences are the type of transistors and the type of resistors.

Nice buffer BTW
 
Ah!

That gives us something to work on; it is hard to tell how bad hiss is without a reference standard.

The first thing I would do is make sure that it is not oscillating at RF; check alll the stages and power supplies with a scope. This is a long shot, but if something is oscillating, it can easily mix a lot of noise down to base band. Next check that nothing is near oscillation - same argument. Use a square wave generator, and look for ringing, both on the outputs and in the power supply rails. To get this to work, you need to temporarily remove the low pass input capacitors.

If it genuinely isn't anything to do with stability, you will need some extra kit to do a diagnosis:
1) a Low Noise Amplifier (say an OP37 set for a gain of 100).
2) an audio spectrum analyzer (easiest to do this with a laptop and software; on my Linux laptop I use something called baudline).

Use the LNA to boost the levels before injecting into the analyzer, and measure the noise spectrum at different points in the circuit. It should become obvious where the noise is appearing; ask again here for help interpreting the measurements.
 
The problem is mostly caused by the Naim having far too much gain.

The Naim pre-amps have a gain of x13 in the line stage, after the volume control. So full power at this point only needs about 70mV rms.

In the days of analog-only sources, we rarely had this issue arise, as signal levels were typically very low (Naim gear was - and is - designed around a signal source nominal output level of 70mV). However, the issue we have today, and raised here, is created by the need to manage the higher level signals (around 2 volts) coming from modern digital sources such as CD players, DVD players, etc, etc.

This seems to be confirmed with my 82 (with the CDI playing), where the volume control usually sits between 7.30 and 8.00 o'clock for gentle background music, and 9.00 o'clock to start it moving (somewhat). So I waste most of the volume control range because the usual operating range (in my case) is heavily compressed (ie small angle of rotation), caused by the volume having to be not far off its minimum setting.

This also adds to the difficulty of using the remote control to adjust volume to the optimum setting because of the sensitivity of the volume control because of the range compression. Also, as 7.30 is not far off the minimum volume setting (7.00 on mine), it only needs a whisker of a volume change to go from low to off, further adding to the remote adjustment difficulty.

Naim has now addressed this issue by allowing adjustment of each input source level to a normalised setting. Unfortunately, my 82 doesn't have such a feature.

However, the (logical) answer (for me) seems to be to reduce the gain of the line stage (from 13x) back to say, 2 or 3, or even unity. (This is done by changing a single resistor in each channel). It will get the volume pot positioned further clockwise, ease the remote volume adjustment by being much less sensitive, especially at the lower volumes, as well as lower any noise produced by the line stage. Seems a 'perfect' solution.

Of course, signal sources with low outputs will need the volume control set to still higher settings, where hopefully the desired sound levels can be achieved. Herein lies a compromise.

I'll try it. Hopefully I can find a compromise in the line stage gain setting which suits my listening needs across ALL my signal sources, and eases the remote volume setting problem!

(Note to Moderators: I presume Naim or their dealers would be prepared to undertake this non-standard component change, if so requested, on the basis of the REAL problems it addresses, as described above. After all, Naim now provides the means to do exactly this (functionally) in their recent preamps).

Nice idea PigletsDad.
 
The standard Naim line stage is unlikely to be stable at very low gains; they do have a unity gain buffer circuit, used in lots of places, but that is a different arrangement with fewer transistors.

I doubt that this is an easy retro-fit; it is a fundamental change of the circuit.

The line stage gain can be reduced from x13 to x6 without stability problems, and it would help the problem. Maybe Naim would do that for you, as it just requires the 1K resistor swapping for a 2K.

Normalising the inputs fixes the problems of cramped range on the volume control, but does nothing about signal to noise.
 
PD, if I change the resistor to 2k will swapping the feedback cap to 22u make much difference? It's glued in place and avoiding this would be nice.
 
No, too big a feedback cap is not harmful, within reason.

Of course, if you were starting from scratch, you could probably get away with a smaller cap with 2K, but the 22uF one will give a corner frequency down at 4Hz with 2K, versus 8Hz with 1K. In either case it is low enough to let the whole audible range through without loss, but no so low that it will take a long time to stabilise at turn-on.
 


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