Council tax class T exemption - help needed
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DarrenW
Oxygen User
What’s the issue? Usually case law sent to the LA in question to support your claim, you could look at the regs administration and enforcement 1992 I recall) or an appeal to the valuation tribunal is a useful route
start by ringing the council and asking them why they think it’s occupied or not an annex or capable of being separately let
start by ringing the council and asking them why they think it’s occupied or not an annex or capable of being separately let
The issue is that I have is that I have applied for class T exemption for a detached garage annex that has a planning restriction on its use. In addition, the garage / annex has an enforcement notice on it that means any use or occupation of the outbuilding as a separate residential unit will be a criminal offence open to prosecution in the magistrates’ court (from previous owner).
The local council (Pembrokeshire) have refused the class T exemption saying that as it is detached and that as it cannot be entered from the main house does not meet the requirements. They want me to pay full council tax and a second home supplement on the garage / annex even though it cannot be lived in.
Their reason for rejection is total nonsense and I am having to appeal to the Valuation Office Agency to get this sorted and would like some advice in the appeals preparation.
The local council (Pembrokeshire) have refused the class T exemption saying that as it is detached and that as it cannot be entered from the main house does not meet the requirements. They want me to pay full council tax and a second home supplement on the garage / annex even though it cannot be lived in.
Their reason for rejection is total nonsense and I am having to appeal to the Valuation Office Agency to get this sorted and would like some advice in the appeals preparation.
The legal description of use of the garage/annex :-
'The lawful use of the outbuilding is as an ancillary outbuilding used for purposes ancillary to the residential use of the property known as Brynawelon and cannot be let out or used separately to the main dwellinghouse'
I would be concerned that class G would prohibit any use at all of the building.
'The lawful use of the outbuilding is as an ancillary outbuilding used for purposes ancillary to the residential use of the property known as Brynawelon and cannot be let out or used separately to the main dwellinghouse'
I would be concerned that class G would prohibit any use at all of the building.
Cav
pfm Member
Who has imposed the enforcement notice that makes residential use "a criminal" offence?
Stuart Frazer
pfm Member
I would just write to them and state the facts and tell them you won’t pay for those reasons. Appeal to the Valuation Office etc, whatever appeals process there is. I assume someone will eventually see sense. If they want to escalate, then let them take you to Court. I can’t see a Court imposing Council Tax on a space that is illegal to be occupied as habitable living space.
Cav
pfm Member
Well, the more we learn the less clear anything is: you describe it as an annexe, the Council as an ancillary building, the Council want to tax as a residential property but at the same time say it cannot be used for that purpose (why is that btw?).
You clearly need to appeal but I would not agree that you should refuse to pay in the interim.
Sue Pertwee-Tyr
Accuphase all the way down
Turning this on its head, might you want to use the building for a separate residential purpose? Eg, a granny flat, holiday let, or residential let/sale? If so, you might be better off arguing that if the council wishes to tax as potentially domestic property, then the prohibition notice needs to be lifted.
The people before me tried to have the planning restriction lifted but was refused (I live in the National Park)
I have spoken to the Pembrokeshire planning this morning and the legal definition for the building is that it is an auxiliary building. I have also spoken to age cymru who have given me details of a solicitor who should be able to help in the matter and I am waiting to hear back from them after outlining the issue.
I have spoken to the Pembrokeshire planning this morning and the legal definition for the building is that it is an auxiliary building. I have also spoken to age cymru who have given me details of a solicitor who should be able to help in the matter and I am waiting to hear back from them after outlining the issue.
Sue Pertwee-Tyr
Accuphase all the way down
Yes, point taken. What I'm suggesting is that you respond to the council along the following lines:
'Thanks, and great. I presume this means you're OK with me developing the building as separate residential use then. Terrific news! Just as soon as you can get that pesky planning restriction removed, we're good to go. Can you have a word with your planning peeps, only they're being a bit awkward'.
My guess is that might dislodge a few fixed views and focus some minds a bit.
Very difficult to find a solicitor with expertise in council tax issues, now on the 4th one waiting for them to get back to me.
''Thanks, and great. I presume this means you're OK with me developing the building as separate residential use then. Terrific news! Just as soon as you can get that pesky planning restriction removed, we're good to go. Can you have a word with your planning peeps, only they're being a bit awkward''
Sounds a good idea but it would not work with this lot who are unable to understand the rules and seem to be making things up as they go along.
''Thanks, and great. I presume this means you're OK with me developing the building as separate residential use then. Terrific news! Just as soon as you can get that pesky planning restriction removed, we're good to go. Can you have a word with your planning peeps, only they're being a bit awkward''
Sounds a good idea but it would not work with this lot who are unable to understand the rules and seem to be making things up as they go along.
Stuart Frazer
pfm Member
My understanding is if the garage annex accommodation forms part of the main house, then you should be exempt from Council Tax on it as you are unable to let or occupy it separately from the other dwelling without a breach of Planning Control.
What would you prefer, the Planning Restriction lifted or not to pay Council Tax? You just need to fight your corner on that preference and give the Council the option -either/or. If they won't make their mind up, then write to them offering them a deadlock situation and request Arbitration or Mediation.
A Specialist Chartered Surveyor or Solicitor can perhaps help you later down the line depending on the above.
What would you prefer, the Planning Restriction lifted or not to pay Council Tax? You just need to fight your corner on that preference and give the Council the option -either/or. If they won't make their mind up, then write to them offering them a deadlock situation and request Arbitration or Mediation.
A Specialist Chartered Surveyor or Solicitor can perhaps help you later down the line depending on the above.
The ancillary outbuilding / annex is detached and as far as the council is concerned that's the problem as it will only grant class T exemption if it forms part of the main house. This is incorrect as even though it is detached it still should still qualify.
Just had next years council tax demand - they want £3110 tax for the building (100% 2nd home premium) that has planning restrictions and an enforcment notice preventing its use as a dwellinghouse (main house £1800). Total madness.
The difficulty I have at the moment is finding a solicitor who is has experience in council tax matters, I am still waiting for the 4th one to get back to me.
Just had next years council tax demand - they want £3110 tax for the building (100% 2nd home premium) that has planning restrictions and an enforcment notice preventing its use as a dwellinghouse (main house £1800). Total madness.
The difficulty I have at the moment is finding a solicitor who is has experience in council tax matters, I am still waiting for the 4th one to get back to me.
Stuart Frazer
pfm Member
I would ask the Council on what basis and case law precedent (if any, but I can't imagine you are the first) they are basing their claim on. Point out that you should be exempt because of the planning law restriction and send them a copy of that if you can. Unless there is specific case law in the Councils favour to support their claim (hence asking them) for this, I don't see why you should pay.
Are you okay writing letters on this basis? I'm willing to assist you if needed - PM me.
DarrenW
Oxygen User
They generally won’t help you on case law, the council will only provide case law if it supports their case for obvious reasons
from what you have written it seems clear that it is an annex, it can’t be let separately due to the restriction, therefore it should be class T
the alternative would be to apply for it to be taken out of banding but that doesn’t seem applicable here
ask for an interview with the decision maker at the council, meeting in person via teams to help you understand so you can decide if a VT appeal is sensible or not. They may convince you or you may convince them but always worthwhile trying to speak to a real person
if you get nowhere then you can do your own appeal, paying an agent to assist can be useful try someone like lgfa92 (can’t recommend them just used google to find an example) they do a free consult
from what you have written it seems clear that it is an annex, it can’t be let separately due to the restriction, therefore it should be class T
the alternative would be to apply for it to be taken out of banding but that doesn’t seem applicable here
ask for an interview with the decision maker at the council, meeting in person via teams to help you understand so you can decide if a VT appeal is sensible or not. They may convince you or you may convince them but always worthwhile trying to speak to a real person
if you get nowhere then you can do your own appeal, paying an agent to assist can be useful try someone like lgfa92 (can’t recommend them just used google to find an example) they do a free consult
foxwelljsly
Me too, I ate one sour too.
If no-one is allowed to reside in it, why not remove the kitchen and get the whole property rebanded as a single property?
Their view will be that unless you remove the kitchen, you could still let it or allow others to reside in it despite the restriction.
We went through a similar thing here and that was their demand. The bathroom was justified as a guest facility.
Their view will be that unless you remove the kitchen, you could still let it or allow others to reside in it despite the restriction.
We went through a similar thing here and that was their demand. The bathroom was justified as a guest facility.