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Climbing the DCS ladder

Update:
Well the Bartok arrived, but it turns out it’s the Apex version.
When I first tried the standard Bartok I found it sounded very different to my Boulder, being a much weightier sound but it felt like it was rolled off at the extremes. I did like it but it didn’t have the magic of the Boulder.
Well one things for sure, the change from Bartók to Apex is not subtle, so much so that it now sounds very similar to the Boulder.
I’ll put the Boulder back in the system tomorrow and report back once I have had a really good listen to the Bartok Apex…

And on top of all that….apparently there’s a Vivaldi arriving on Monday 🙄
 
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maccar said:
Is
it the Bartok Apex model?
I own the Bartok without Apex and without doubt, the best DAC I've owned, tempted to send it off to be upgraded to Apex, but that's not cheap either.
Look forward to your thoughts.
Mac
Click to expand...
Hi Mac
After listening to the Bartok Apex last night I can say the Apex is a completely different animal to the standard Bartok. I found the Bartok a bit warm and muddy but the Apex is much more lithe, lean and detailed with much tighter bass. They’re so different I would definitely try before you buy, if you love the Bartok, there’s a chance that (even though you could consider it a ‘better’ dac) you might not like the completely different presentation.
To me, the Apex sounds like a Bartok with an SR master fuse in it (gives a similar result), and I think I would prefer that combo.
 
About 5 year's ago I tried the bartock at home for a few weeks. This was the headphone version, and I was comparing it against my naim nds twin power supplies.
I found the bartock to be very different, but was looking for even more an upgrade over the naim.
So I tried the rossini and fell in love with it. It had everything the naim could do but with more sparkle, more detail, just everything inpoved. Only problem being price.
In the end I found a secondhand rossini player, and clock for sale. This did me proud for many years.

Then the apex upgrade appeared, I obviously went for a listen, and decided the difference between them was quite substantial. But instead of getting my rossini player apex'ed, I sold it and got myself the vivaldi apex dac. This was certainly a beast and the way it sounded over the rossini was once again considerable.
I have since added the upsampler, again a nice uplift in sound quality, it just makes the sound wider, deeper, and taller.
Then lastly the clock, this again moved things forward, but it hard to explain what the difference is. You don't get more detail or bass, etc. But it does make things just sound better.
But the apex is certainly worth having


It looks like some new mapping/filers or something is about to be released, this could move things on once again.
Also you can do away with a pre amp as it's that good. Plus if you are using a pre amp then the chance is you are not hearing the dcs kit as it should be.
I found this to be my problem along with many more now, so worth bearing in mind.
 
I’m at the bottom rung of the dCS ladder with vintage Purcell upsampler and Delius (pre FireWire version) DAC - bought separately and relatively cheaply over the last 18 months (just over £1k cost). Really happy upsampling 24/176 from Purcell to Delius via dual-AES. Is the later kit really that much better?
 
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Dowser said:
I’m at the bottom rung of the dCS ladder with vintage Puccini upsampler and Delius (pre FireWire version) DAC - bought separately and relatively cheaply over the last 18 months (just over £1k cost). Really happy upsampling 24/176 from Puccini to Delius via dual-AES. Is the later kit really that much better?
Click to expand...

Surely Purcell upsampler, not Puccini?
 
Dowser said:
I’m at the bottom rung of the dCS ladder with vintage Puccini upsampler and Delius (pre FireWire version) DAC - bought separately and relatively cheaply over the last 18 months (just over £1k cost). Really happy upsampling 24/176 from Puccini to Delius via dual-AES. Is the later kit really that much better?
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Yes. I remember when my brother went from a Debussy to a Paganini and I thought, how can it get better than this, it did with the Rossini and again with the Apex upgrade.
 
Dowser said:
I’m at the bottom rung of the dCS ladder with vintage Puccini upsampler and Delius (pre FireWire version) DAC - bought separately and relatively cheaply over the last 18 months (just over £1k cost). Really happy upsampling 24/176 from Puccini to Delius via dual-AES. Is the later kit really that much better?
Click to expand...
There’s a Purcell/Delius combo on eBay today - the guy is asking over £3K, sounds like you got a great bargain. The newer kit sounds better but whether it’d be a VFM upgrade I rather doubt, nothing wrong with hitting a sweet spot and enjoying it.
 
Salamander said:
@Woodface I had no idea your post was supposed to be funny (no laughter emoji)

The Naim forum is a place I don't want to go to, maybe you can post in 'Things That Amuse' thread.
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Kind of proves my point. I used the ;) which kind of indicates that I was having a little joke. Do we have to take listening to music so seriously?
 
Woodface said:
Kind of proves my point. I used the ;) which kind of indicates that I was having a little joke. Do we have to take listening to music so seriously?
Click to expand...
Defintely not

Otherwise I wouldn't have such gems as "They're coming to take me away" and "Da da da ich lieb dich nicht..." on the NAS :)
 
If I came into a large sum of money I would definitely listen to some DCS gear, perhaps the top end Linn DSM item. Fantastic prices mind.
 
Hound said:
About 5 year's ago I tried the bartock at home for a few weeks. This was the headphone version, and I was comparing it against my naim nds twin power supplies.
I found the bartock to be very different, but was looking for even more an upgrade over the naim.
So I tried the rossini and fell in love with it. It had everything the naim could do but with more sparkle, more detail, just everything inpoved. Only problem being price.
In the end I found a secondhand rossini player, and clock for sale. This did me proud for many years.

Then the apex upgrade appeared, I obviously went for a listen, and decided the difference between them was quite substantial. But instead of getting my rossini player apex'ed, I sold it and got myself the vivaldi apex dac. This was certainly a beast and the way it sounded over the rossini was once again considerable.
I have since added the upsampler, again a nice uplift in sound quality, it just makes the sound wider, deeper, and taller.
Then lastly the clock, this again moved things forward, but it hard to explain what the difference is. You don't get more detail or bass, etc. But it does make things just sound better.
But the apex is certainly worth having


It looks like some new mapping/filers or something is about to be released, this could move things on once again.
Also you can do away with a pre amp as it's that good. Plus if you are using a pre amp then the chance is you are not hearing the dcs kit as it should be.
I found this to be my problem along with many more now, so worth bearing in mind.
Click to expand...
I've been a dCS Vivaldi full stack owner since 2016, when I added the Upsampler Plus, to the Transport, DAC and Master Word Clock, purchased in 2015.

Two further additions have, in my opinion, "supercharged" the performance of the Vivaldi system. In 2020, I added a Mutec Ref 10 SE-120 Reference 10MHz clock and upgraded the Vivaldi DAC to Apex status in 2022.

Having tried the Vivaldi Apex DAC directly into my power amp (D'Agostino Momentum S250 MxV) and with the companion preamp (D'Agostino Momentum HD), In my setup, I prefer a preamp in the signal chain to control volume, with the Apex DAC set at 0.0 db (6v output, Mapper 3, filters to suit frequency).

I can't say that I compared the Vivaldi components to Rossini or Bartok, having upgraded from a dCS Paganini Transport and DAC, purchased in 2009.

Now that was a big step up!
 
@crystalref Interesting that you have your output set at 6v, my brother had the same setting when using Accustic Arts monos and using his Rossini as a pre. After changing amps to the Audionet Humboldt, an odd crackle was heard from time to time, finally solved by changing to the 2v output, apparently overloading the amp.
 
Salamander said:
@crystalref Interesting that you have your output set at 6v, my brother had the same setting when using Accustic Arts monos and using his Rossini as a pre. After changing amps to the Audionet Humboldt, an odd crackle was heard from time to time, finally solved by changing to the 2v output, apparently overloading the amp.
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D’Agostino rates the input of the Momentum HD preamp up to 10v, so no overloading in my case!
 
Recently saw a used Debussy that I was thinking I might pair with some also used Magnepan LRS's.

I've just done up the home theatre with a JBL Synthesis pro and Meridian DSP3200's all around (heights and sub to come, likely Dali and Arendal respectively), but the itch for a proper music system is still there. The speakers that hooked me on the hobby oh so many years ago were some Totem Model 1's and while it's tempting to grab a used set of Totem's I think I'd like to experience electrostratic again (I had some Quads for about a week when I was maybe 28 and then one blew up and they went back for a refund....).
 
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