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Climbing the DCS ladder

Thetiminator

Thetiminator

Painfully virile
I’d be interested to hear anyone’s experiences of the difference between the Bartok, Rossini and Vivaldi. I’ve been told by the dealer that the jump from Rossini to Vivaldi is greater than Bartok to Rossini. Is that your experience too?
Thanks guys…
 
As an ex Bartok owner I was very under-whelmed by the Bartok's performance for its price. The dCS Forum was full of people saying (I paraphrase) 'I wasn't happy with dCS until I got to Rossini level' which did nothing to soothe my post purchase dissonance. Suggest you browse there to see. Thankfully there's good demand for secondhand dCS kit and I got my money back from a secondhand purchase :)
 
I've owned Bartok, Rossini, Rossini with clock and Rossini apex with clock (my present source). The increase in listening satisfaction follows the order of that list in steps that all tend to be quite noticeable.

The clock makes a big contribution, to such an extent that one longstanding Paris dealer has sold several Bartok DAC + Vivaldi Clock setups.

I've found that HRS dampers, quality mains cables etc are best applied to the clock first if you can't afford to do both clock and DAC in one go.
 
I’d tried a Bartók around 6 months or so ago, but I didn’t buy it as compared to my Boulder I found it a bit rolled off at the frequency extremes, a bit bass heavy and just didn’t have the magic of the Boulder.
But, recently I bought an Antipodes player which has tightened up the bass a lot, so it might now suit.
Anyhoo, my dealer is sending another one to me (lands tomorrow) for another try. He suggested sending a Rossini too saying there’s a big difference between the two….and then went on to say the Vivaldi was much better again and did I want one of those sent over too…
Shipping was three fortunes to send all 3 over so I’ve just got the Bartok coming for now. I was just interested to hear your experiences on the difference between the models….
With shipping around £250 a pop I don’t really want to be firing things back and forth willy-nilly…
 
I started with the original Bartok on home loan Jan 2021, we liked it more than the Auralic G2 Aries/Vega combo, enough that they were sold and the Bartok took up residence. The Auralic had beaten everything else we'd tried up to then, only reason for looking elsewhere was that the Leo GX clock & Sirius were busts so the plan for the G2 stack of 4 units being end game failed- the Leo clock made absolutely sweet fa difference. Lent it to a mate with same gear as us, he found same - no difference.

Couple of years passed and then I borrowed a Bartok Apex to do a head to head, my Bartok was at V2.0 by then. Definate improvemnet but not large enough for me to hand over the wonga, decided a used Rossini non Apex was the way to go and some patience.

Shortly after that I was able to home demo a Rossini and a Rossini Apex over a reasonabale period of time, decided the Rossini Apex was what I really wanted to move to - significant improvement accross the board. Struck a deal and came home a few months ago with a brand new Rossini Apex and a used Rossini Clock that was handed back as a trade in the day I was collecting my kit - half price - figured if I didn't hear a difference like with the Leo I'd move it on easily enough. I actually made a £Grand selling the Leo on. The dCS Clock does make a small but noticable difference, I did the usual litmus test and after taking it out of the system I missed it, so it's still here.

Long term I aim to get a Vivaldi + Upsampler for a home demo after a shop demo to see if worth the hassle. My dealer is good and doesnt charge for shipping loaners, well not so far.

dCS is expensive but if you buy carefully it does hold it's value and you're unlikley to take a bath. I'd aim at the Rossini and see if you can get a deal, I got a great discount on mine - there are a lot of Bartoks around used seem to be about £10K from dealers, private you should get one for £7-8K non Apex. Might be some announcements at Munich - likely software I think not hardware.

Thoroughly pleased with the Bartok and Rossini, to my ears they are the best streamimg/dacs I've heard at their price points, if I didn't have umpteen TTs I'd be more than happy with the Roissini as my Pre also. The dCS forum is worth joining, lots of info and a few real enthusiasts post - plus some fab system pics.

ATB
Gus
 
@Amber Audio
Before I had the link cable that synchronizes DAC and clock switching in and out of standby I could always hear it if I forget to switch the clock out of standby.

Will you be at Munich? I will.

About the pre amp - I've found that the Rossini Apex and clock actually sound a little better through the Aesthetix Calypso Eclipse although at one point I had thought of getting a decent ADC to run the phono stage through the Rossini volume control.
 
I have just had a Bartok APEX followed by a Rossini APEX on home demo. The Rossini is significantly better than the Bartok to my ears. Compared to my current DAC, a Mytek Manhattan II, the Bartok was different but not necessarily better, but the Rossini beats the Mytek by a significant margin. My dealer says that the step from Bartok to Rossini is more significant than that from Rossini to Vivaldi, particularly if you add the clock to the Rossini. I don know, as I haven’t heard a Vivaldi! I have ordered a Rossini and my dealer is going to lend me a clock to try with it.
 
Is
Thetiminator said:
I’d tried a Bartók around 6 months or so ago, but I didn’t buy it as compared to my Boulder I found it a bit rolled off at the frequency extremes, a bit bass heavy and just didn’t have the magic of the Boulder.
But, recently I bought an Antipodes player which has tightened up the bass a lot, so it might now suit.
Anyhoo, my dealer is sending another one to me (lands tomorrow) for another try. He suggested sending a Rossini too saying there’s a big difference between the two….and then went on to say the Vivaldi was much better again and did I want one of those sent over too…
Shipping was three fortunes to send all 3 over so I’ve just got the Bartok coming for now. I was just interested to hear your experiences on the difference between the models….
With shipping around £250 a pop I don’t really want to be firing things back and forth willy-nilly…
Click to expand...
it the Bartok Apex model?
I own the Bartok without Apex and without doubt, the best DAC I've owned, tempted to send it off to be upgraded to Apex, but that's not cheap either.
Look forward to your thoughts.
Mac
 
Amber Audio said:
I started with the original Bartok on home loan Jan 2021, we liked it more than the Auralic G2 Aries/Vega combo, enough that they were sold and the Bartok took up residence. The Auralic had beaten everything else we'd tried up to then, only reason for looking elsewhere was that the Leo GX clock & Sirius were busts so the plan for the G2 stack of 4 units being end game failed- the Leo clock made absolutely sweet fa difference. Lent it to a mate with same gear as us, he found same - no difference.

Couple of years passed and then I borrowed a Bartok Apex to do a head to head, my Bartok was at V2.0 by then. Definate improvemnet but not large enough for me to hand over the wonga, decided a used Rossini non Apex was the way to go and some patience.

Shortly after that I was able to home demo a Rossini and a Rossini Apex over a reasonabale period of time, decided the Rossini Apex was what I really wanted to move to - significant improvement accross the board. Struck a deal and came home a few months ago with a brand new Rossini Apex and a used Rossini Clock that was handed back as a trade in the day I was collecting my kit - half price - figured if I didn't hear a difference like with the Leo I'd move it on easily enough. I actually made a £Grand selling the Leo on. The dCS Clock does make a small but noticable difference, I did the usual litmus test and after taking it out of the system I missed it, so it's still here.

Long term I aim to get a Vivaldi + Upsampler for a home demo after a shop demo to see if worth the hassle. My dealer is good and doesnt charge for shipping loaners, well not so far.

dCS is expensive but if you buy carefully it does hold it's value and you're unlikley to take a bath. I'd aim at the Rossini and see if you can get a deal, I got a great discount on mine - there are a lot of Bartoks around used seem to be about £10K from dealers, private you should get one for £7-8K non Apex. Might be some announcements at Munich - likely software I think not hardware.

Thoroughly pleased with the Bartok and Rossini, to my ears they are the best streamimg/dacs I've heard at their price points, if I didn't have umpteen TTs I'd be more than happy with the Roissini as my Pre also. The dCS forum is worth joining, lots of info and a few real enthusiasts post - plus some fab system pics.

ATB
Gus
Click to expand...
Hope to go down your route, but rarely see the Rossini SH, or ex demo.
Mac
 
@maccar
I've had the apex mod done to my Rossini and my dealer had it done to his personal Bartok - both of us are more than happy with the improvement. My dealer chose the apex mod instead of adding a clock.
 
The Bartok, in particular, suffers from the ridiculous price rises over the past few years, mainly arising from Absolute Sounds becoming involved. It's price now takes it beyond 'competing' products. It's trying to compete at a price level that its performance doesn't match.

I did have one on home dem for a couple of weeks, but preferred the Moon 390 which I bought. The Moon is a far more flexible, well equipped device. It's also a proper pre amp

The problem with Bartok pricing can be seen with tne great number of used and ex dem models around. Many of these have been on sale at around £10k for many, many months. The standard Bartok was around £11,500 brand new just a few years back. Many of those on sale would have been bought at around that price. People remeber that when considering a used purchase. A used Bartok 'should' be £6-7k, not £10k. Many, me included, are not going to oay more or less the original purchase price for a years old used model.

The Apex uograde also muddies the waters. I've heard this and it is an improvement. Many people considering a Bartok will have the Apex in mind. It costs £6k. If a used Bartok is bought at say £9.5k, then that's £15.5k for a used example. Ex dem Bartok Apex can be had for not much more than that.

if considering a Rossini DAC, then the Moon North 891 really should be considered. Very, very well equipped streaming DAC and a proper pre. The remote control must be amongst the best out there. I heard one at a dealer intro day; stunningly good. £25k. Less than Rossini plus a 10 year warranty. It/s more than I'm prepared to pay, but must be worth a look for those interested in tne Rossini?

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My brother had a Rossini dac/Rossini clock, purchased an Antipodes K50 to replace a purpose build computer, sold his Rossini clock since this is only in use when using usb, now using AES to output to the dac. The dac was then upgraded to Apex so will be interested in comments from anyone that has moved from Rossini to Vivaldi.
 
As a Rossini Apex + clock owner, I have to say that Moon 891 looks a lovely piece of kit and with the analog and phono inputs, a pretty compelling package for digital users still using vinyl. If the sonics are up to snuff, a great product.
 
uncl_nigel said:
@Amber Audio
Before I had the link cable that synchronizes DAC and clock switching in and out of standby I could always hear it if I forget to switch the clock out of standby.

Will you be at Munich? I will.

About the pre amp - I've found that the Rossini Apex and clock actually sound a little better through the Aesthetix Calypso Eclipse although at one point I had thought of getting a decent ADC to run the phono stage through the Rossini volume control.
Click to expand...
Not able to make Munich, might look at next year and base a short break around it with Mrs AA.

Up to now I’ve always preferred a dedicated Pre but the Rossini direct into a power amp was pretty convincing.
 
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