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Clear digital lies with REV RIAA

How does it improve digital sound in any way? Or is this purely a subjective claim? :) I fail to see how passing a line level signal through a passive filter and then through an MM phono stage will "improve" anything (unless you like noise and distortion). I'm normally a subjectivist but this just seems silly!
 
I guess it can impart some of the vinyl distortions without the inconvenience of actually cutting a disc. Apparently, some people really do prefer that sound.
 
I'm reminded of an article by Doug Self of a device called the De-Vinyliser designed to make LPs sound more like their digital versions.
IIRC, this removed very low frequency anti-phase signals that are supposed to be generated by imperfections in the vinyl; absent in digital files.
He jokingly said he would next be creating the Vinyliser to put these signals into the digital versions.
 
S_J said:
How does it improve digital sound in any way? Or is this purely a subjective claim? :) I fail to see how passing a line level signal through a passive filter and then through an MM phono stage will "improve" anything (unless you like noise and distortion). I'm normally a subjectivist but this just seems silly!
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Yes I agree it does look silly. but nether the less it works and it does sound better, the BW is 20Hz-20KHz and no nasty clocking low level harmonics from the digital screw up, and to be blunt and honest this little beast enable TQ to start trading.
So why not try it I am not asking for the keys to your wallet just try it, and as to Mr.Self I was the engineer that cleaned the crap he left at Cambridge Audio and Richer Sound. So no respect there sorry.:)
 
CJ14 said:
as to Mr.Self I was the engineer that cleaned the crap he left at Cambridge Audio and Richer Sound.
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I'm sorry, my post wasn't meant as a slight against your device and I apologise if it came across as that. I only remembered it because I wouldn't have minded trying the Vinyliser if it had ever materialised.

I actually have a reverse RIAA filter I bought a while ago for exactly these sort of experiments - not that I've had time to try them yet. Your post will spur me on to give it a go.
 
DaveMc64 said:
I'm sorry, my post wasn't meant as a slight against your device and I apologise if it came across as that. I only remembered it because I wouldn't have minded trying the Vinyliser if it had ever materialised.

I actually have a reverse RIAA filter I bought a while ago for exactly these sort of experiments - not that I've had time to try them yet. Your post will spur me on to give it a go.
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Go for try it out it should be a treat.
 
Nothing new here. There was such a contraption sold in 1984 I think by a French foo manufacturer called Guiston.
 
CJ14 said:
As promised here is a link to the Reverse RIAA cheapish to make but improves digital sound.
Those with MM input that are now never used can use them again oh and a added bonus no record scratches to be heard. Unless record with digital lies.

https://seca.freeforums.net/thread/301/rev-riaa-pink-fish
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You could add a FET stage or even better a valve to add some low order harmonic distortion and charge even more, especially for the valve version, hifi mags would wet themselves.
 
russel said:
You could add a FET stage or even better a valve to add some low order harmonic distortion and charge even more, especially for the valve version, hifi mags would wet themselves.
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Or you could do the same digitally at a tiny fraction of the cost.
 
I recall many threads on the old Naim forum about their NAT01 tuner, and how it made pretty much anything on the radio sound better than the original media being broadcasted. I thought perhaps we should create a device that would do a broadcast+reception within a single box, to inject this air-magic into the sound. ;)
 
I realise this is causing some merriment but I also think there are some interesting ideas being explored by this filter.
Technically, digital blows lp reproduction out of the park. However, there is no denying that there is a subsection of listeners that seem to enjoy vinyl over digital. The question it raises is why?
Off the bat, there are number of possibilities I can think of including but not limited to those below:

Tracking distortion? supposedly mostly 2nd order -euphonic?

Channel separation? probably about 30dB with a cartridge but only increasing slowly until reaching very high frequencies. In digital it is probably defined by the amplifier and that is usually by stray capacitive coupling so dropping more rapidly from mid frequencies upwards. Is that a problem? Well if fundamentals are represented further apart and overtones more centrally, maybe.

Noise shaping? what might be being explored here. The RIAA curve strongly attenuates higher frequencies. Noise is likely to be mostly generated in the early stages of cartridge amplification but this also gets filtered by the RIAA curve giving a certain colour to the underlying noise profile. Noise that is mostly absent from digital reproduction.

Anyway, just some thoughts.
 
DaveMc64 said:
Noise shaping? what might be being explored here. The RIAA curve strongly attenuates higher frequencies. Noise is likely to be mostly generated in the early stages of cartridge amplification but this also gets filtered by the RIAA curve giving a certain colour to the underlying noise profile. Noise that is mostly absent from digital reproduction.
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Are you suggesting that the application of RIAA-shaped noise might imbue the sound with vinyl qualities? That would be easy enough to explore.
 
I'm suggesting it might be one of the possible mechanisms behind the "sound of vinyl" and open to exploration. I tried adding some very low frequency anti-phase noise as mentioned above to a track I know well but can't say I could tell a difference but then I was listening through Kans so maybe nothing was being reproduced.
 
mansr said:
Depends on how well you disguised it. I'm tempted to build a special USB cable with a microcontroller embedded in the plug, detecting audio transfers and subtly altering the sound. For extra fun, it would sometimes play Rick Astley softly in the background.
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Now instead of trying to isolate a faint hum in their system people are going to be looking for the source of the faint "Never Gonna Give You Up" when they get close to the speaker.
 
Mike Hanson said:
I recall many threads on the old Naim forum about their NAT01 tuner, and how it made pretty much anything on the radio sound better than the original media being broadcasted. I thought perhaps we should create a device that would do a broadcast+reception within a single box, to inject this air-magic into the sound. ;)
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Let's see now: A bit of compression, some NICAM distribution, a bit of Tx/Rx noise, non-linear demodulation, 40dB max stereo separation and a steep 19kHz notch filter, followed by Naim's miracle gain circuit. That should do it.

My colleague at Naim, and Witch Hat had what can only be described as a 'go' on a standard NAT01. It walked all over one and was especially nice to listen to to the extent that you weren't sure if the background noise was in the reception or in R4's studio air conditioning.
 
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