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Cleaning Records

I had a bit of an RCM cleaning binge last year when re-bagging lots of vinyl into new inner and outer sleeves. TBH I didn't notice much change in sonics other than with obviously dirty records.
Going forward I won't clean anything which sounds quiet and in good condition, or new discs.

On MRA, is there any research as to the effects on replay?
I'd be interested to hear a brand new LP pre/post a good scrub on the RCM so perhaps that's a little future project.
Playing devils advocate, perhaps it helps lubricate the stylus/vinyl interface....?
Well, you read dafter and less plausible ideas every day ;)

Everyone should have a Discwasher brush. The old one sold until the late 80s, not the current version. Used as instructed the directional bristles very obviously lift and hold dust, as opposed to spreading it around the disc surface or making a nice neat line which you then have to drag off the record, putting much of it back into the grooves as you go :)

I think I've also come to agree with Tony on the risks of hard platters, especially where the vinyl is being forced down onto it using a clamp.
Actually in that situation I can see why using an RCM and being scrupulously clean with vinyl matter more.
 
Apart from the existential issues reported above, I did a batch some time ago (just before I began the strike) and one or two came out with more static. I remember this happening before once, a couple of years ago, and I've seen people sometimes whinge about the same thing on the forum here. Now this doesn't usually happen, but it appears it can, and I wonder what we are doing wrong when it does?

Another point. I have just installed a posher cartridge than I am used to - an AT 50ANV. It tracks like a bastard, frankly, and doesn't seem to pay any attention to the condition of records, unless they are totally f**ked. Frequently though I will detect a little grumble and discover it has unearthed a huge ball of fluff from the grooves, which I will subsequently blow off (like I'm not supposed to do - go on then, tell me off!).

This would seem to support the ancient Linn mantra of let your cart do your cleaning for you, which I hitherto thought to be ludicrous.
 
Elephantears said:
This would seem to support the ancient Linn mantra of let your cart do your cleaning for you, which I hitherto thought to be ludicrous.
Click to expand...

There may be some truth in that, but more with conical styli played at possibly weightier VTFs rather than micro ridge and similar stylus shapes, I'd have thought.

Can't say I remember being too concerned about record noise in the Shure mm days, long before RCMs. Mind you, records weren't collectors' items then, and the vinyl replay chain was not a patch on what it is today
 
I'm not sure what kind of stylus the ANV50 has; it just says 'special line contact stylus' on a boron cantilever. It weighs 10g, so perhaps that is why it's getting down into the grooves and digging out all the grime.
 
I have spent a large part of my life cleaning stuff, and was brought up to believe that PROPER cleaning is always a 3 stage process.

1- WASH - Using warm water containing a cleaning agent (surfactant)

2- RINSE - to remove any contaminant from 1.

3- DRY - Damp/blotchy/mold has never looked, or been good.


So having collected Vinyl since the 70's I have decided it is time for a clean up.

Looking at the commercially available cleaners most seem to omit stage 2.

Maybe because of this they leave out sufficient cleaning agent (surfactant) to prevent any possibility of deposited contaminant from 1.

Step 1 is paramount........

TBC.
 
As the owner of several brands/models over the years, I would like to give my input. I currently have the Audio Desk RCM and it is excellent. The consensus from group of audio mates is we can indeed hear the difference when cleaning new and used records. This RCM is not cheap and in the beginning the units had several issues. Over here in the States, we had/have a good distributor who really helped get machines fixed. (Audio Desk being in Germany made it a challenge for shipping back so the distributor would swap out with new units). Now, many of the big dealers carry the unit and its parts. This RCM just takes distilled water and a small container of their own "cleaning solvent". Just put the LP on and let her fly. Pretty easy and the best cleaner I have owned, in terms of getting the records clean. On the downside, buying their solvent is kind of a rip (6 bottles for $100) and there is not an adapter for 10" and 7" records.

I have a VPI 17 for years and it is a great unit. Keeping fluid in the tank for lengths of time can rot the tank, so be careful. I liked the control you have with the brushes and choice of fluids. Of course, buying cases of fluid can add up over time. It's a little manual intensive to clean, but it does a great job.

The NITTY GRITTY FL2.5 was my first RCM. It did a good job too, especially for cleaning used records. You can choose your fluid and the parts are inexpensive and easy to maintain. I met Gail (the owner of the company) at one of the THE Shows a few years back and she was very nice.

And of course there is the old Disc Washer, which I used for years and years back in the 70s and 80s. I never found it clean dirty records, but used it as sort of maintenance procedure my good old Dad taught me when I was a kid.

So, all that being said, I have found cleaning records can improve the sound. More important though, it can help protect your cartridge, which is usually a big investment by itself.
 
misterdog said:
2- RINSE - to remove any contaminant from 1.


Looking at the commercially available cleaners most seem to omit stage 2.
TBC.
Click to expand...

Possibly because the vac. removes virtually all residue in solution. One always has the facility to clean again with purified water, but I can't see why that would be necessary. Certainly more expensive, though !:)
 
Elephantears said:
I'm not sure what kind of stylus the ANV50 has; it just says 'special line contact stylus' on a boron cantilever. It weighs 10g, so perhaps that is why it's getting down into the grooves and digging out all the grime.
Click to expand...

Line contact is a more modern form of elliptical. The weight of your cart. doesn't affect the playing weight (VTF) in the groove.
 
Elephantears said:
Apart from the existential issues reported above, I did a batch some time ago (just before I began the strike) and one or two came out with more static. I remember this happening before once, a couple of years ago, and I've seen people sometimes whinge about the same thing on the forum here. Now this doesn't usually happen, but it appears it can, and I wonder what we are doing wrong when it does?
Click to expand...

Static charges easily build up during the vacuum cycle especially when the weather is dry. I live in extremely humid environs so this seldom happens but it still does occasionally when I let the vacuum cycle go on a bit too long. So back off a bit on the vacuum (& let your record dry off naturally over some time) or use an antistatic gun.

I currently have the Audio Desk RCM and it is excellent. The consensus from group of audio mates is we can indeed hear the difference when cleaning new and used records. This RCM is not cheap and in the beginning the units had several issues.
Click to expand...

I tend to agree. Ultrasonic cleaning technology has been around a long long time and used for cleaning jewelry etc. It has only recently been adapted successfully for cleaning records. I also use a VPI 17 which is good enough but I don't rule out getting something like the Audio Desk once the teething problems have all been worked out. Very effective, almost effort-free and quiet. But expensive...
 
Elephantears said:
Apart from the existential issues reported above, I did a batch some time ago (just before I began the strike) and one or two came out with more static. I remember this happening before once, a couple of years ago, and I've seen people sometimes whinge about the same thing on the forum here. Now this doesn't usually happen, but it appears it can, and I wonder what we are doing wrong when it does?
Click to expand...

This can happen if the vacuum is left sucking at a dry disc for too long.
Certainly with the Okki it wants about two full revolutions, three at most and any more can cause static.

<sorry, as Hock said ^ >
 
As the owner of several brands/models over the years, I would like to give my input. I currently have the Audio Desk RCM and it is excellent. The consensus from group of audio mates is we can indeed hear the difference when cleaning new and used records

.................

Audiodesk Use one myself the only 21st RCM on the market , all others are stuck in the 20th century one of the best things i have ever bought

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tkfiuh5kHhU
 
daytona600 said:
As the owner of several brands/models over the years, I would like to give my input. I currently have the Audio Desk RCM and it is excellent. The consensus from group of audio mates is we can indeed hear the difference when cleaning new and used records

.................

Audiodesk Use one myself the only 21st RCM on the market , all others are stuck in the 20th century one of the best things i have ever bought

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tkfiuh5kHhU
Click to expand...

Fascinating 1 Thanks for that. Don't agree with everything he said, though, especially regarding static. Furthermore, I was under the impression that the fluid penetrated the grooves in a conventional RCM when you 'brushed' it in and allowed to soak. The chap seems to deny this.

Nor, unfortunately, does he mention the constituents of the fluid ('proprietary fluid'); whether it's alcohol or alkaline based.

Two sides at once is useful, and the ultrasonics presumably obviates the need to soak and therefore reducing time, but as I believe this machine costs an arm and a leg over even pricier conventional RCMs here in the U.K., I'll pass.
 
Any thoughts on using steam ? I suspect like everything there will be those for/against.

I think that steam would loosen dirt pressed in by the stylus, and is a simpler than considering ultrasonics.

I have found a web page by Peak Hi-Fi which says that Okki Nokki advise that de-ionised water will damage your records and to only use purified water :confused::confused:
 
For those who use two Knosti DiscoAntistats, do you have the brushes fitted or removed in the one you use to rinse the records?
 
Can someone please point me to a cheap source for genuine distilled water? I'd also like to know how one determines whether the product they are buying is actually genuine distilled water and they're not just being ripped off with a bottle filled with plain old tap water. Perhaps I'm irrationally distrusting here, but instinct tells me this might be an instance in which to avoid eBay?? :D
 
ToTo Man said:
Can someone please point me to a cheap source for genuine distilled water? I'd also like to know how one determines whether the product they are buying is actually genuine distilled water and they're not just being ripped off with a bottle filled with plain old tap water. Perhaps I'm irrationally distrusting here, but instinct tells me this might be an instance in which to avoid eBay?? :D
Click to expand...

Any decent chemists will do - I buy mine in 5l/10l flagons.
 
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