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classical for the unwashed

F

fraser.

pfm Member
Quite often i find myself enjoying classical music on the radio in the car, but most often when it's on during a film, and it's much more powerful than whatever rubbish story seems to be taking place on camera. But when i'm in oxfam or wherever i don't even know where to start, trying to find something i might like... I have 1812 overture as i recognised the name but i don't really like the crash and whallop stuff on this record, i like slower stuff.

I was watching 'seven' the other night and there's a classical piece which i've heard before, it begins at the point where morgan freeman goes into the library overnight to study the religious texts- what is it, and what style of music is this?

There's a shit tom cruise film about racing cars and as the credits roll at the end i think there's one there i like aswell, but i can't find out what it's called.

Also at the start of raging bull there's a nice piece, i really like that one, wouldn't know where to find it though..

Is there an easy resource to classical music to get me started?

Are there any famous classical guitarists? I'd like some nice recordings of good works on guitar.

Thanks for any help
 
After a bit of Googling
Raging Bull - exerpt from Cavalleria Rusticana by Mascagni (Opera and very popular in film soundtracks)
Se7en - Air by JS Bach from Suite 3 - aka Air on the G String
Days of Thunder soundtrack doesn't list any classical - but Tony Scott is a bit of an opera buff based on his other films.

There are quite a few music from films compilations around - Naxos label did a cheap box-set I think. this is a useful link - http://www.naxos.com/musicinmovies.asp?letter=A
The Bach you'll find on a Baroque compilation eg: http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B000025UJG/?tag=pinkfishmedia-21

For classical guitar Julian Bream is a good starting point - something like this http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00002DFHV/?tag=pinkfishmedia-21

There are loads of classical chill out compilations eg- http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B000BMGFW4/?tag=pinkfishmedia-21

The purists will start 'tutting' but it gives you a foot in the door - and you can use it as a starter for checking out the composers you like the sound of...

For full 'starter' pieces my recommendations would be -
Elgar - Cello Concerto
Barber - Adagio for Strings (used in loads of films inc Full Metal Jacket)
Mozart - Eine Kleine Nacht Musik & 'Elvira Madigan' Piano Concerto 21
Beethoven - Piano Sonatas Moonlight etc
all can be got quite cheaply from Amazon or your local Oxfam - you can worry about which orchestra/player/soloist/conductor later on - go for the ones with with the label you like.

There's lots of nice crash and wallop stuff for later too...

cheers
Chris
 
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Elgar - Cello Concerto: Du Pre, Barbirolli on EMI

Barber - Adagio for Strings: Marriner & the Acadamy of St Martin in the Field on Argo, (Decca) (might be tricky to find!)

Mozart - Serenade No. 13 in G major, K525 'Eine kleine Nachtmusik': Orpheus Chamber Orchestra on DG

& 'Elvira Madigan' Piano Concerto 21: Mitsuko Uchida/Tate/ECO on Philips

Beethoven - Piano Sonatas Moonlight etc Claudio Arrau on Philips.

These are my personal faves.
 
Radio 3 have a "building your collection" pod cast. Penguin and Gramophone produce well thought of guides.

Hmmm, I've an idea, what about starting a pfm "DISC OF THE WEEK CLUB" a bit like Radio 4's book of the week.

A recommendation is published, say on a Monday and the following Sunday, having had all week to listen to it, we can discuss it? By using Spotify you would not need to make a purchase until after you had listened, to see if if you liked it or not.

As I am not as well versed as many in this section on the classical repertoire, perhaps we could have some volunteers to make the weekly recommendations?

The idea being the Dotw club is used to help introduce classical music to those who are interested in starting to build a collection but do not know where to start. Any mileage in this?
 
On Radio 3 there used to be a guy comparing several interpretations of a given classical work - on weekends I think. A bit on the intellectual side if you're not used to it but it's very interesting and you learn a lot about classical music and what it's about.

P.S.: Borellus was a few seconds faster.
 
Basil said:
Elgar - Cello Concerto: Du Pre, Barbirolli on EMI

Barber - Adagio for Strings: Marriner & the Acadamy of St Martin in the Field on Argo, (Decca) (might be tricky to find!)

Mozart - Serenade No. 13 in G major, K525 'Eine kleine Nachtmusik': Orpheus Chamber Orchestra on DG

& 'Elvira Madigan' Piano Concerto 21: Mitsuko Uchida/Tate/ECO on Philips

Beethoven - Piano Sonatas Moonlight etc Claudio Arrau on Philips.

These are my personal faves.
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OK, I wouldn't necessarily discourage you from listening to these less than remarkable works, but if you want something a bit more challenging to get you started then try:

Beethoven: Appassionata sonata (Brendel (the digital recording) or Arrau, Kreutzer Sonata (Perlman and Askenazy or Kremer and Argerich), and pretty much all of the symphonies, although you can start with the famous ones, they're all great. Pick your favourite conductor!

When you've checked out the Elgar Cello concerto (it's very nice), up the ante a bit and try the violin concerto - a marvel!

Mozart - OK, yes, we all like eine kleine - but why not see what the master could really do, with symphonies 39-41, Mackerras on Linn is fabulous.

Check out Bach's Brandenburg Concertos too - very accessible and also at the same time great! Pinnock or Harnoncourt.

Then if you want to see where it's really at, try the Brahms Violin Concerto. This awesome masterpiece is hardly a pop classic, but seems nonetheless to be responsible for bringing large numbers of people to classical music - myself among them when I were at high school! A very profound and complex masterpiece, it nonetheless doesn't seem to deter people who are new to classical music in the way that late Beethoven Quartets or Haydn can. Oistrakh with Szell on EMI's Great Recordings is a nice intro to the piece - Oistrakh doesn't seem to worry quite so much about what to do with it all as some fiddlers do, and gets to the heart of the mater. I think Grumiaux is available to budget price too now, as I think is Mullova with Abbado. The Brahms Violin Concerto has claims to being the greatest concerto, although I suppose you could make a case for the Beethoven C minor (piano).

YOUR FIRST FORAY INTO THE WORLD OF CLASSICAL MUSIC NEEDN'T RESTRICT ITSELF TO LOLLIPOPS!

HK
 
Thanks for those replies, that gives me a great starting point to go hunting.

One thing i've noticed about classical is the quality of vinyl is in another league from most rock and pop records. I have mirrors less reflective than these records :D

I like that idea too borellus, i'm sure it would help a lot of people like me learn what me like and what we don't- at the moment i lump all classical music into one big pile- i'm pretty sure i wouldn't do that with any other genre!
 
Naxos, please. The musicians on Naxos recordings are 'just ok' for the job; nothing better. Kind of 'runner up' or Bronze meddle level.

At the other end of the scale, anything on the Deutsch Gramophone label will be to die for. If you like your strings and orchestras sounding lush and smooth and slow, Herbert Von Karajan was one of the best conductors ever.

Good classical guitarists are Julian Bream and John Williams; just don't get them doing cheesy compilation albums.

You should have these in your collection to get respect from true Classical musos:

Tchaikovsky - Symphony number 6 conducted by Karajan.
Tchaikovsky - Violin concerto conducted by Karajan with Christian Ferras on Violin.
Mahler - Symphony number 5 conducted by Georg Solti.
Rodrigo - Concierto de Aranjuez with John Zaradin and conducted by Guy Barbier.
 
The adagio from Mahler's 9th is what first caught my attention. 5th above is also excellent.

Big fan of arvo part's minimalism here. Te Deum, Litany, Kanon Pokajanen particular favourites.
 
"YOUR FIRST FORAY INTO THE WORLD OF CLASSICAL MUSIC NEEDN'T RESTRICT ITSELF TO LOLLIPOPS!" + "Naxos, please." + "You should have these in your collection to get respect from true Classical musos:" = "The purists will start 'tutting' but it gives you a foot in the door "

See what I mean...

I responded to a genuine query from someone who had heard some music he liked and wanted to hear more in a similar vein - in order to establish his own taste.

I've a suspicion that many who contribute to PFM started listening as 'fledgling audiophiles' to what was popular at the time as many others do - what separates us from those others is that our interest drives us to seek out more and different music that we hear and like or read about and piques our interest. There comes a stage when the Pussy Cat Dolls don't do it for us any longer - but we don't drift off into painting model soldiers instead!

I'm by no means a classical buff - I know what I like and that does include Arvo Part, Steve Reich and a bit of John Cage - but my intention was to encourage not to scare off.

As a result of this thread I'll be buying the Mozart by Mitzuko Uchida on recommendation and may check out others - I'll also be keen to follow a recording of the week thread...

but sometimes chaps - talk about jumping in with both feet!

file under: Ambient Rant
 
wobbleu - Calm down dear...!

Re lollipops - there's no reason to assume that people who are new to classical music will only respond to little sweeties. Indeed, I suspect people with a serious interest in music will take an active interest in tackling the most challenging repertoire. OK, the Bartok Quartets are probably not the best starting point, but Eine Kleine Nachtmusik and the Adagio for bloody Strings...!

Uchida's Mozart recordings are fabulous, hope you enjoy them. They are being somewhat superseded by Brendel's digital recordings as the "reference", although Brendel is a very different personality. I don't really subscribe to the notion of definitive recordings anyway, although some are certainly better than others.
 
I'm a fan of Naxos. I'm by no means a buff but they do some good stuff. If anyone can find Moeran's String Quartets on another label please will they let me know?
 
xdcam said:
Naxos, please. The musicians on Naxos recordings are 'just ok' for the job
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Nonsense. Fifteen years ago this was essentially true, but no longer. You need to take a look at the current roster of artists Naxos uses, and do the same for other labels. Karajan has been dead a long time you know.




hammeredklavier said:
Naxos now record some truly world class musicians and their sound engineering is often streets ahead of the glitzy labels.
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I can’t buy into the notion that Naxos engineering beats the “glitzy” labels either, because it does not.
 
Todd A said:
I can’t buy into the notion that Naxos engineering beats the “glitzy” labels either, because it does not.
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It's variable in standard, but the best of them are far more natural than recent offerings from DG and EMI. DG in particular are still rather over-engineered to my ears. Depends what you're listening for I suppose.

You're quite right about their artists though, there're some very highly desirable recordings in Naxos's catalogue.
 
hammeredklavier said:
It's variable in standard, but the best of them are far more natural than recent offerings from DG and EMI. DG in particular are still rather over-engineered to my ears. Depends what you're listening for I suppose.
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Based on my listening, I can't say that I agree. The best Naxos and other label recordings are all pretty much the same in overall quality, but some recent Naxos recordings (some Villa-Lobos or Rorem, say) have a slightly glassy and bright sound that the majors tend to avoid. And comparing recent Naxos Symanowski recordings to older EMI Szymanowski recordings under Rattle (to pick one example) doesn't reveal more natural sound for Mr Heymann's company. (I don't buy into "natural" sounding recordings anyway, since they are not natural and can never sound like live music.)
 
There is a Classic FM Good Music Guide written by Jeremy Nicholson. I don't listen to Classic FM much but the guide book helped me to think about composers and musical styles when I started into this.

As a first foray into classical, I recommend chamber music in general. Boccherini's guitar and string quintets and his cello concerto are easy to listen to and involving as well. Haydn, Beethoven and Mozart concertos are a joy. Brahm's Hungarian Dances are stirring and enjoyable and could then lead you to Dvorak, Liszt and Enescu. For Opera, I started with the Barber of Seville (inspired by an advertisement for the Alfa Sud, years ago, which used it). I think anything by Saint Saens is great but recommend his 1st Cello Concerto to start with.

Hope this helps. I've tried to pick music that I really enjoy and which avoids the density and weight of Tchaikovsky (although I reckon that once you're really bitten by the classical bug, you'll find your way back to him and the music from Swan Lake might be a good place to start...)
 
Nonsense. Fifteen years ago this was essentially true, but no longer. You need to take a look at the current roster of artists Naxos uses, and do the same for other labels.
Click to expand...

Seconded, I have a Naxos recording of Faures' Requiem which is superb!

I'll post the details later, I'm a bit busy right now!
 
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