Classic records reissues of Blue Note

[Elephantears]

I'm not John, Oscar, but no matter.

Interested to hear other experiences of the AP pressings, since my first experience put me off, but I don't want to miss some gems.

 

[Kt77]

I'd say Speakers Corner had a bit of a sound / aesthetic of their own, they certainly seem to veer towards the warm, lush and spacious rather than forward, dynamic, attacking, and the contrast with original US Impulse pressings can be pretty extreme in this regard, the originals sound far more lively to me. They are always beautifully pressed; flat, quiet and well centred. The Getz Gilberto album is a bit of an oddity as, for some reason I forget, Astrud's voice on Girl From Ipanema is centred rather than panned hard-right. There is some lengthy discussion about this on Steve Hoffman, but I can't recall the reason as to why it's different from every other stereo copy I've ever heard. Other than that it's a nice record, certainly on the warm and lush side, but not in a bad way. I must have about 10 Speakers Corner LPs, mainly Impulse reissues, though some Verve and a few others too.

Tony,
Once again thanks for chiming in on this topic, I'll see what I'm able to dig up over on SH site?. But at least it gives me a feel of what to expect from these records.

Cheers, yet once again.
scar

 

[Kt77]

I'm not John, Oscar, but no matter.

Interested to hear other experiences of the AP pressings, since my first experience put me off, but I don't want to miss some gems.

Ops!, I do apologize for my oversight.
As my mind wonders off the beaten path occasionally.

I'd say that at best it's a crap shot, as I've come across many of their LP's I simple can't live without, while others had me thinking why bother!.

I seems to me that Chad feels that many listeners are simply going to buy his pressing no matter if they've issues with known QC matters or not?, I tend to try to replace an LP once and afterwards merely ask for a refund.

As I've been dealing with this company for over 15 years now, they've never given me a problem with returns - as I think that they're beginning to know just how picky I am.

The guys over at Soundstagedirect have to be the most honest I've come across regarding re-issues vs original pressings and in said case have told me on a few occasions to go after originals on either eBay or through Gemm.

I do understand the finer points that both you and Tony have expressed regarding the Speaker Corners, but seeming I rotate through the various flavors of cartridges from time to time. It seems it's merely a matter of finding which cartridges are voiced either side of the spectrum as a means to form a more synergistic whole.

Once again, my bad. It's hard being in your mid 50's - as things can be missed more readily - but damn it my ears still work.

Cheers,
scar

 

[Tony L]

With Analogue Productions I've not been so lucky; 'Coltrane' by Coltrane has one of my favourite Coltrane tracks, the ecstatic modal version of 'Out of This World'...

Just played that now off the Complete Classic Quartet 8xCD box, it really is a superb track. I love that early impulse phase of Coltrane. I've got it on vinyl too, though just as one of the 1990s Capitol pressed 180g jobs, so could no doubt be improved on. The CD sounds fine to be honest, I really enjoyed it!

 

[Elephantears]

Fantastic, isn't it. He starts off ecstatic and never comes down for 14 minutes. Its very tonally adventurous compared to the other studio recordings of that period, with lots of overblowing. I agree that the early 60's Impulse period is great, but I think its closer to the Live at the Village Vanguard recordings. The live recordings of India have the same ecstatic feeling, but they tend to lose focus and don't have the same structured intensity as OUTW.

 

[hockman]

Given the choice I always go for the original or early pressings rather than reissues except for cost/condition/scarcity considerations.

I like the old Classic 180gm reissues -- these are amongst the best reissues out there IMHO. The 200 gms are not so great although probably still ok for most part.

I also like Speakers Corner and Pure Pleasure.

I do not like Analogue Productions. I've heard many complaints but personally I have not had any bad experiences. It's more that I do not like the way they sound -- very warm and rolled off. Audiophiles seem to like this kind of sound.

As for the 45rpms, they are a royal pain, having to flip every 10 to 15 mins. The improvements in sonics are not significant enough for me to bother. I swear, soon these audiophile companies will reissue stuff in 78 rpm in order to sell you another round of reissues in 'improved' fidelity.

Japanese pressings are great - the Kings have a warmer balance while the Toshibas tend to be a bit brighter. Can't go wrong with either but I've found the Toshiba reissues from the 1990s to be less good. I rather suspect that perhaps they are from digital masters.

So for the OP, if you can find the Classic 180gms they are well worth picking up depending on the price.

 

[Elephantears]

Can you give some specific examples, Hockman?

I'm surprised what you say about AP since the two I mentioned above are anything but warm and rolled off; they are bright and hyper-detailed.

Why do you prefer Classic 180g to 200g; have you any favourites?

 

[Tony L]

I do not like Analogue Productions. I've heard many complaints but personally I have not had any bad experiences. It's more that I do not like the way they sound -- very warm and rolled off. Audiophiles seem to like this kind of sound.

I only have one, Sonny Rollins Way Out West, and I love it. One of the finest sounding records in my collection, the trio really does sound it's in the room with me. It's also flat, quiet and centred, in fact can't think of anything to complain about. I've also got the SACD of Art Pepper Meets The Rhythm Section, but sadly my ageing early Sony player doesn't seem able to read the SACD layer. The red book layer sounds very nice though.

 

[Elephantears]

Oh yes, I have the Way Out West too; I'd forgotten because its not 45rpm. Not warm and fuzzy at all, but as Tony says, very live and present. Again, very detailed, and my only qualm is that I sometimes feel a bit dizzy hearing the sax move in and out from the mic, but that's the close mic conditions of the recording, not the superb reissue.

 

[hockman]

Can you give some specific examples, Hockman?

I'm surprised what you say about AP since the two I mentioned above are anything but warm and rolled off; they are bright and hyper-detailed.

Why do you prefer Classic 180g to 200g; have you any favourites?

For AP, I have a few:

Art Pepper, New York Album
Art Pepper, So In Love
Art Pepper, The Intimate Art Pepper

These are much older APs. They are warm with a 'thick' midrange, lacking in excitement although very clean sounding. So much so that I have considered seeking out the original pressings. Luckily my phono preamp allows me to adjust the RIAA curve and this helps tremendously.

I also a few blues AP reissues - Lonnie Johnson, Sidney Maiden. These are better but still very 'rich' sounding, like someone turned up the midrange dial. Same for a Jimmy Rogers blues CD that I have.

I would never characterise the AP sound as forward or bright based on what I have.

On Classic Records 180gms, I have:

Horace Parlan, On the Spur of the Moment
Sonny Rollins, Nows the Time
Sonny Rollins, Our Man in Jazz
Dave Brubeck, Time Out
Coleman Hawkins/Clark Terry, Back in Bean's Bag

I like these, the music has great presence and attack. My 200gms (Sonny Rollins' The Bridge & JR Monterose) are a bit more subdued.

I know Way Out West and Art Pepper Meets the Rhythm Section well. These are wonderful sounding records to start with, recorded with great fidelity by Roy DuNann. The sound just leaps out of the speakers with great presence and body. I have the japanese pressings.

Like I said, I normally don't care for most 'audiophile' reissues. They are usually a bit too clean and 'dead' sounding for me. I also can't be bothered to make endless comparisons between different pressings of the same album. Take everything I've said with a pinch of salt as I am also someone who thinks that a lot of CDs sound fine.

 

[Elephantears]

Thanks hockman, some useful experience there.

Have you, or anyone else, heard an especially good reissue of Sonny Rollins' 'Saxophone Colossus'? Since hearing the master-tape copy at Scalford earlier this year I've really wanted to get a great vinyl copy.

 

[Kt77]

Given the choice I always go for the original or early pressings rather than reissues except for cost/condition/scarcity considerations.

I like the old Classic 180gm reissues -- these are amongst the best reissues out there IMHO. The 200 gms are not so great although probably still ok for most part.

I also like Speakers Corner and Pure Pleasure.

I do not like Analogue Productions. I've heard many complaints but personally I have not had any bad experiences. It's more that I do not like the way they sound -- very warm and rolled off. Audiophiles seem to like this kind of sound.

As for the 45rpms, they are a royal pain, having to flip every 10 to 15 mins. The improvements in sonics are not significant enough for me to bother. I swear, soon these audiophile companies will reissue stuff in 78 rpm in order to sell you another round of reissues in 'improved' fidelity.

Japanese pressings are great - the Kings have a warmer balance while the Toshibas tend to be a bit brighter. Can't go wrong with either but I've found the Toshiba reissues from the 1990s to be less good. I rather suspect that perhaps they are from digital masters.

So for the OP, if you can find the Classic 180gms they are well worth picking up depending on the price.

Hi hockman,

Thanks for chiming in on this thread. It appears that quite a few of us are interested in these recordings. I nice having other views on the Classic Records 180G pressing compared to the 200G versions.

It's also insightful hearing another view on those Speaker Corners and Pure Plesaure releases as I've been thinking about trying a few here and there. It seems to me the ORG is offering some of the best overall sound I've heard on wax in quite awhile - that Rickie Lee Jones - Pop Pop is played once a week.

I've yet to try any of the Analogue Productions Impulse LP's - but was told that there re-issued Love Supreme surpasses them all?, as I tend to pursue Trane's earlier Impulse LP's and the ocassional Atlantic here or there. But I always go after the Japanese pressings, as many of the sellers in the states know very very little about grading their vinyl accordingly - and I'll give Japanese sellers that much - if it's listed as EX NM/Mint it most certainly is.

And thanks for the tip on the 90's Toshiba's, as I'm aware that they ( Toshiba ) had Acoustic Sound produce several LP's for them last year that are reported as flops. I was telling a friend the other day whom is doing an Internship in NYC that called me while in a record store in the Soho district about what BN's to look out for?.

I told him the earlier the better - but generally stay between the periods of 1953/65 and no later then the 70's Liberty stuff as well as no later then the ones re-issued up until about '89 period. So it appears this seems to be the case with said Toshiba's as well.

I must say this has been one of the most enjoyable topics I've ever been a part of - know why?. Because we're all focusing upon the Music.

And that's rare now days.

Thanks to all of you, I've now gained more insight into which labels and pressings are worth pursuing, and I'll be looking for those Classic 180G's as well.

Regards,
scar

 

[banjoman]

So for the OP, if you can find the Classic 180gms they are well worth picking up depending on the price.

Thanks Hockman
Will keep a look out for the 180gms classics. Unfortunately. most of the Classic reissues that I am interested in and available at a decent price are the 200gm ones - probably for good reason!

 

[Kt77]

I've both the Sonny Rollins - Way Out West and Saxaphone Colossius?, on both Analogue Production and the older DCC Release and can't for the life of me tell which is better sonically?.

I don't mind so much having duplicates of records, as it allows me to find which ones sound better then the others, in some cases find covers in better condition then the earlier copies I might have obtained in the late 60's early 70's when I didn't care as much about the whole packing issue.

I've had a friend of mine whom is into BN's as well, tell me that during our record shopping trips in the early 90's that I was going to miss out on a lot of quality BN's - because I wouldn't even consider ones that covers had cut out holes/slits - crushed corners - bent corners - slit seams. And he was right.

Of late my thinking has been as it has always been - NM/Mint Vinyl first -then take into account if the cover isn't to nasty/moldy?, it could merely be replaced at a later date. After all it was the record's conduction I should have been focusing on and not that of an albums cover.

Lesson learnt since then " Snooze - Loose ".
No more snoozing here I might add. And lastly, I suffer from a conduction called Gout - that makes it very difficult to move about as freely as I once did - but if I can manage to get up and turn over one of those BN or anybody else's 12" 45 RPM for that matter, so should you.

Once again this has been a very interesting topic.

Good day/evening to you all.
scar

 

[Kt77]

Thanks hockman, some useful experience there.

Have you, or anyone else, heard an especially good reissue of Sonny Rollins' 'Saxophone Colossus'? Since hearing the master-tape copy at Scalford earlier this year I've really wanted to get a great vinyl copy.

Hi Elephantears,

As mentioned elsewhere - the best versions I've heard period were either the older DCC version, followed by the one offered by Analogue Productions.

I'd have to add, I think that many of the LP's that have gotten a back rap from Analogue Productions have been mostly focused on the Blue Note's. As Chad is re-doing many of the Mono Prestige titles of late, I for one am certainly willing to give them a try.

I can't say how things are over there?, but here trying to find/afford originals is only for those with extremely deep pockets. And even then " I still don't do scratched up vinyl ".

Maybe I'm funny about that?, but that's part of the fun in finding records that are both rare, yet in great shape I'd say.

Here's a little something I've found with an emphasis on those 45 RPM's, which has become pretty much my view as well:

http://www.dagogo.com/View-Article.asp?hArticle=1061

Good day Mates,
scar

 

[banjoman]

Sorry to hear about your gout Oscar.
Enjoy those 45s!!

 

[albireo]

My Classic Records "Band of Gypsys" 140g rates amongst the best sounding recordings I own!

 

[Kt77]

Sorry to hear about your gout Oscar.
Enjoy those 45s!!

Hi banjoman, I shall. As my kids are always questioning me about my health - I merely tell them guys I'm okay " I woke up this morning ".

After that any/everything is a given. I mean why complain - when there are some whom don't have shoes - feet - legs!. All I'm concerned about it being here to enjoy my family - truest friends and make it over to that damn WTA and cueing up a records.

After all is said and done " I'm Good ".
Thanks though. scar

 

[hockman]

Thanks Hockman
Will keep a look out for the 180gms classics. Unfortunately. most of the Classic reissues that I am interested in and available at a decent price are the 200gm ones - probably for good reason!

The 200gms are probably fine but just be a bit careful. Some of these reputedly had some QC problems e.g. warping, scratches etc. It can be quite difficult to distinguish the 180 from the 200 gms as the records/covers are not marked accordingly except on the outer plastic sleeve.

Overall though I rate the Classics very highly, probably the best out there for audiophile reissues. I forgot to mention that I also have Led Zeppelin's early albums on Classic and they are much better than the Atlantic pressings that I have.

Finally, since no one has mentioned, I also like to recommend Mosaic Record's vinyl. The company has no audiophile pretensions but they take great care in their products that focus more on considerations of musical content. The recent box set of Thelonious Monk at the It Club has great playing and sound.

 

[Kt77]

The 200gms are probably fine but just be a bit careful. Some of these reputedly had some QC problems e.g. warping, scratches etc. It can be quite difficult to distinguish the 180 from the 200 gms as the records/covers are not marked accordingly except on the outer plastic sleeve.

Overall though I rate the Classics very highly, probably the best out there for audiophile reissues. I forgot to mention that I also have Led Zeppelin's early albums on Classic and they are much better than the Atlantic pressings that I have.

Finally, since no one has mentioned, I also like to recommend Mosaic Record's vinyl. The company has no audiophile pretensions but they take great care in their products that focus more on considerations of musical content. The recent box set of Thelonious Monk at the It Club has great playing and sound.

Hi hockman,

It's weird you mentioned Mosaic Records, that's one of the labels I used to chase during the mid to late 90's. It's where I got my first taste of Andrew Hill BN recordings. And spot on about the quality of their pressings as well.

Here's a list of the discontinued sets in case anyone here was interested in finding them:

http://www.mosaicrecords.com/outofprint.asp

As mentioned elsewhere in the PFM files - Jazz is my thang.
Be well guys,
scar