Chord Mscaler Qutest to Mscaler TT2

[Darfy]

How much of a jump is swapping out the Qutest to a TT2 with an Mscaler

I am Currently using the Qutest Mscaler with CD transport and Innuos Pulse. Does the TT2 have the extra bass and slam over the Qutest?

Used Dave prices are coming down but is it worth the extra outlay?

Amp is Rega Osiris into PMC speakers

 

[Fourlegs]

How much of a jump is swapping out the Qutest to a TT2 with an Mscaler

I am Currently using the Qutest Mscaler with CD transport and Innuos Pulse. Does the TT2 have the extra bass and slam over the Qutest?

Used Dave prices are coming down but is it worth the extra outlay?

Amp is Rega Osiris into PMC speakers

I am perhaps in the minority but I preferred the Qutest over the TT2 (as long as the Qutest is powered by a decent LPS). I never found the TT2 to approach anywhere near the Dave for transparency whereas I think of the Qutest as being a ‘mini Dave’. Rob Watts is on record saying that he expected the TT2 to be nearer the Dave than it is for transparency.

Having said that many (most?) disagree with me!

But best of all would be to get a second hand Dave which is what I did.

 

[Mr Underhill]

I think fourlegs is right, the Qutest is more resolving. But, I do like the bass weight of the TT2.

I think you really need to listen to it in your system.

 

[Fourlegs]

I think fourlegs is right, the Qutest is more resolving. But, I do like the bass weight of the TT2.

I think of the TT2 as being a big brother to the Mojo mk1 in that (from my distant memory of having a Mojo Mk1) they share some sonic characteristics. I sold the Mojo mk1 for the same reason that I sold the TT2.

Dave actually has more bass weight than TT2 although initially it seems the other way around.

I think you really need to listen to it in your system.

And that is the best advice.

 

[camverton]

To most non audiophile folk the actual differences between Chord Dacs are quite small. i wouldn’t upgrade from a Qutest to a TT2 for sound quality but would to get a decent preamp and headphone amp. If I didn’t need the features of the TT2 than I would be quite happy with the Qutest when used with the m-scaler.

 

[Allan Probin]

I’ve owned a Qutest (and enjoyed it) but now have the TT2 and very happy with the upgrade. The TT2 is a step up in terms of clarity, refinement, smoothness and engagement. I know Chord DACs can get a lot of criticism, and it’s worried me at times, but I really do think the TT2 is an excellent and enjoyable DAC. I take the point that the TT2 can also be used as a (very good) headphone amp and pre-amp but in addition to that it can also drive efficient speakers directly should you ever want to (was once an itemised feature but Chord keep this one under wraps now) and it’s Bluetooth input I find really handy if I want to listen to a YouTube video through the HiFi.

Theres a few tweaks though that I think help elevate the TT2 in my system.

1) I prefer filter 3. The internal upsampling in the TT2 is a two stage process. Stage 1 increases the sample rate to something like 768kHz, the second stage increases that further to something like 5Mhz. As I understand it, Filter 3 (and 4) omit the second stage of upsampling and to my mind it sounds the better for it. Whether that’s down to simply less manipulation of the digital audio signal, less noise produced by the FPGA, or something else, I don‘t know, but it sounds (relatively) a bit hard and strident and less engaging under filter 1. Although I’m curious to hear one, I’ve never actually heard a Dave. One thing that would put me off (or be very wary about) is that it doesn’t have any filter selections like the TT2 does. So if I like filter 1 less than I like filter 3 on the TT2 then I’m stuck with essentially filter 1 with the Dave.

2) Even though I’m running my TT2 into an integrated amp, with it’s own pre, I still prefer the TT2 with a little digital attenuation, -4dB in my case. Could be a result of something internal to the TT2, could be my pre input prefers a slightly lower level than the standard 3v output from the TT2

3) Replace the stock power supply with an Sbooster BOTW power supply.

4) Use the SPDIF coaxial input rather than USB

I‘ve previously owned an Mscaler and used it with the TT2 but ultimately preferred it without so sold it. With headphones, the improvements were easy to hear, but in-room less so. Plus after going back and forth, with and without, I felt the Mscaler had the effect of thinning out the sound slightly. Probably it was more correct that way, but in my system, in my room, to my ears, I preferred the slightly more warmer and inviting sound without it, plus with it, it reminded me more of Filter 1.

So personally if I already owned a Qutest + Mscaler, I’d seriously consider adding the option of going from there to a TT2 standalone.

 

[camverton]

Just to add to my previous post I ”upgraded“ from a Qutest to a TT2. Carefully comparing them level matched and not knowing which was which I could reliably detect a difference but the curious thing was that on some tracks I preferred the Qutest and on others the TT2. To my ears the differences were very small and would go unnoticed whilst listening to music. The TT2 as a pre with a volume know I liked was a valuable addition though.

The biggest improvement came with the addition of an m-scaler in that with, for example harpsichord music with lots of transients, it was easier to follow the line of the music, and the sound became more natural, less processed, maybe more analogue but without the multiple failings of vinyl. The effect of the m-scaler, to my ears, varied according to music type and genre.

Nick @Fourlegs kindly brought his Dave c/w Jacobs power supply over for a mini bake off. It was different to the TT2, I felt with a little less energy but another listener found it with greater musical flow. It must be said that opinions based on an afternoon swapping equipment are not enough to come to a lasting judgement. At this level opinions are very much down to the preferences, not to mention acuity of hearing, of the individual and there is no right or wrong.

In general Chord DACs reproduce the music accurately, with great detail and without artefact. This can be perceived, quite reasonably, as a slightly thin, not rich, sound and I feel they are best used with very good loudspeakers with very clean, low distortion output. Many people prefer a warmer sound and using filters 3 and 4 can help a smidge with this but then I think that if one desires warmth to the sound then, whilst the DAC is possibly the last place to look, Chord DACs wouldn’t be my first choice. Loudspeakers particularly and amps will have a much, much, greater effect.

 

[Fourlegs]

Nick @Fourlegs kindly brought his Dave c/w Jacobs power supply over for a mini bake off. It was different to the TT2, I felt with a little less energy but another listener found it with greater musical flow. It must be said that opinions based on an afternoon swapping equipment are not enough to come to a lasting judgement. At this level opinions are very much down to the preferences, not to mention acuity of hearing, of the individual and there is no right or wrong.

Indeed I well remember the trip to your beautiful part of the country and also your kind hospitality including your memorable bacon sandwiches.

Whilst in general I agree with you about time needing to be taken when comparing equipment if I may say so I also remember that the improvement to your system sound was pretty much immediate when adding my WAVE Storm dual bnc cables between the Mscaler and TT2.

 

[Fretbuzz]

Haven't used a Mscaler but went from a Qutest to a Hugo 2, and as well as the preamp functionality there does seem to be a bit more body and drive to the sound. It's even better when playing from the battery/unplugged too (might try a LPS at some point).

Had a brief time with a TT1 also. That did have more scale and relative warmth but not the fine top end or resolution of the Qutest or H2. Felt more like an advanced Mojo1/2qute mix.

 

[TheDecameron]

Haven't used a Mscaler but went from a Qutest to a Hugo 2, and as well as the preamp functionality there does seem to be a bit more body and drive to the sound. It's even better when playing from the battery/unplugged too (might try a LPS at some point).

Had a brief time with a TT1 also. That did have more scale and relative warmth but not the fine top end or resolution of the Qutest or H2. Felt more like an advanced Mojo1/2qute mix.

The Hugo 2 is a fantastic device. I got it to use as a portable but then added the 2go streamer and it now sits as the streaming dac preamp in my TV system with an Icepower Edge 1200as2 into Martin Logan esls or Sennheiser HD800s. I listen to a lot of live classical concerts or stream from Roon and it’s great.

 

[Allan Probin]

I think that if one desires warmth to the sound then, whilst the DAC is possibly the last place to look, Chord DACs wouldn’t be my first choice.

Just wanted to say that when I used the word warmer in my description I don’t necessarily mean warm, I just mean comparitively warmer than something that sounds brighter, to me.

I was giving some thought to what you said in the quote above and it lead me to remember something that Rob Watts has said a number of times. He’s often quoted as saying that when comparing two things, for example two different digital inputs, or two different power supplies, the one with more electrical noise can produce a pattern of distortion that can be perceived as brightness, and this brightness can give a false impression of detail, and this can lead to false conclusions about which is the better of the two items under comparison. I know he’s often said he prefers optical to SPDIF in many cases for this very reason. As it happens I‘ve done that comparison myself with the TT2 as my digital transport has optical and SPDIF outputs and I’ve preferred SPDIF in this particular case, but I take his point.

 

[Fretbuzz]

The Hugo 2 is a fantastic device. I got it to use as a portable but then added the 2go streamer and it now sits as the streaming dac preamp in my TV system with an Icepower Edge 1200as2 into Martin Logan esls or Sennheiser HD800s. I listen to a lot of live classical concerts or stream from Roon and it’s great.

Been looking at the 2go - could make a very neat little system!

 

[camverton]

Indeed I well remember the trip to your beautiful part of the country and also your kind hospitality including your memorable bacon sandwiches.

Whilst in general I agree with you about time needing to be taken when comparing equipment if I may say so I also remember that the improvement to your system sound was pretty much immediate when adding my WAVE Storm dual bnc cables between the Mscaler and TT2.

Maybe a topic for the trade section? Nonetheless, the wave cables did make a noticeable but small improvement, particularly noticeable on cymbals brushwork and violins. Very much the icing on the cake if one has got everything else sorted. iirc Rob Watts found your cables beneficial, a great compliment, but to put the cables in perspective I think he referred to them along the lines of refining the quality of the surface of the icing on the cake, which seems a good analogy to me with my ears at the time. In the context of the equipment we are discussing that can still be worthwhile if one has the associated kit, ears and wallet.

I got the impression that your hearing, as are many other folks, was more finely tuned to sound quality changes than mine and I’m guessing that is where your market is. Two years on from our meeting and I have what I hope will turn out to be a temporary hearing problem. This has increased my realisation that any discussion on hifi is more about the acuity of hearing of the listener than the equipment.

Needless to say you will be very welcome to come over again for a bacon sarnie and to listen to some music, not to mention a garden wander and a tickle of my pussies!

 

[Fourlegs]

Just wanted to say that when I used the word warmer in my description I don’t necessarily mean warm, I just mean comparitively warmer than something that sounds brighter, to me.

I was giving some thought to what you said in the quote above and it lead me to remember something that Rob Watts has said a number of times. He’s often quoted as saying that when comparing two things, for example two different digital inputs, or two different power supplies, the one with more electrical noise can produce a pattern of distortion that can be perceived as brightness, and this brightness can give a false impression of detail, and this can lead to false conclusions about which is the better of the two items under comparison. I know he’s often said he prefers optical to SPDIF in many cases for this very reason. As it happens I‘ve done that comparison myself with the TT2 as my digital transport has optical and SPDIF outputs and I’ve preferred SPDIF in this particular case, but I take his point.

Indeed and I agree with a lot of what you say there. Now when I am assessing different digital devices or connections or digital power supplies or digital cables I tend to refine the rather course description of ‘brightness’ or ‘warmer’ and instead I concentrate on whether I can hear enhanced emphasis on percussive or plucked notes, sometimes to the point of them being ‘relentless’. I find this to be a more reliable and consistent way of judging what I am hearing.

Like you though, I have never really been able to hear optical passing that test and I have wondered whether the conversion process from optical in the receiving device is generating more noise than the theoretical noise isolation of optical. Also like you I find spdif mostly sounding best (and also coming out best in my way of judging outlined above).

In passing, I also find my percussive and plucked notes test to be pretty reliable when comparing network switches (and where again I have so far failed to have any enthusiasm for fiber networking because for me it always sounds harsher than copper ethernet with a good switch such as the PhoenixNET).

I have mentioned before that one of my go to test tracks for this is Spiral Stair by Mammal Hands. At its best this has a wonderful Saxophone throughout the track complemented by some quite complex percussion in the background. At its worst the percussion takes over and becomes relentless, overwhelming the saxophone. The music is not to everyones taste (I admit I like it a lot) but the track is a very useful tool for assessing digital equipment and ancillaries.