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Chord DAC differences

vinylmonkey said:
Yes , I like the Mojo 2 in there - hence interest in how some of the other options compare in case I want to convince myself to save the bother of swapping the Mojo in and out 😁
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if it was me I would just get another Mojo. Original Hugo is quite old and will likely need its internal battery changed at some point. It also has a micro usb input which can suffer reliability issues due to wear and tear. I didn’t realise 2qute has a fixed 3v output, which would rule it out of the shortlist for me.

So that leaves the qutest vs mojo, with a used qutest costing twice a new mojo. Qutest benefits from full sized USB and RCA connections, but I don’t think the sound quality would be significantly better. I have not heard a qutest myself but used to own a TT2. That was awesome with headphones but as a DAC my recollection is that it was surprisingly close to the Mojo. In other words when listening to the mojo I don’t have a stong sense of needing a better DAC. The caveat to my comparisons is that I am using external upscaling in HQ player.
 
TT2 developed an issue so has gone back to dealer for an initial look. They have loaned me a Qutest, which was very kind of them. So, an opportunity to hear at home what we didn’t like in the shop.

Initial thoughts are as follows:
  • Yes it’s a sturdy brick but the Input and Filter buttons don’t feel high quality.
  • The lack of a basic on/off button came as a shock. Wall control only.
  • The packaging feels much higher quality than for the TT2.
  • The operating instructions are dreadful. Only 4 small sides and in a font size that even someone with perfect vision would struggle with. Had to use my 8x readers obtained via a low vision assessment.
  • Inevitably the instructions omit basic information. So, yes, you get 16 seconds to set the voltage and it’s not hard to do but theres an implication you do this when disconnected from source and pre and it’s never really made clear. It’s also wholly unstated what the default voltage is. Literally no idea. Took a punt and connected it to streamer and pre whilst they were powered up and the latter was muted on an unused input. Seems okay but who knows. Set to 1V initially and the first Incisive Neutral filter. 2.5V in DAC mode for the TT2 was far too much. Thus why that was set to PRE and lowered to 1.5V.
  • Instantly more hiss when no music playing. Always been some if I kneel in front of the speaker but now it’s audible from the listening position.
  • As much detail if not more than the TT2 but at the expense of mid range warmth and certain instruments sounding surprisingly unrealistic. Music thus far sounds like recordings than music and it is all, as per our demo 3 years ago, too forward and in your face. Will be interesting to see how it changes over the next few days.
 
Mike Hughes said:
TT2 developed an issue so has gone back to dealer for an initial look. They have loaned me a Qutest, which was very kind of them. So, an opportunity to hear at home what we didn’t like in the shop.

Initial thoughts are as follows:
  • Yes it’s a sturdy brick but the Input and Filter buttons don’t feel high quality.
  • The lack of a basic on/off button came as a shock. Wall control only.
  • The packaging feels much higher quality than for the TT2.
  • The operating instructions are dreadful. Only 4 small sides and in a font size that even someone with perfect vision would struggle with. Had to use my 8x readers obtained via a low vision assessment.
  • Inevitably the instructions omit basic information. So, yes, you get 16 seconds to set the voltage and it’s not hard to do but theres an implication you do this when disconnected from source and pre and it’s never really made clear. It’s also wholly unstated what the default voltage is. Literally no idea. Took a punt and connected it to streamer and pre whilst they were powered up and the latter was muted on an unused input. Seems okay but who knows. Set to 1V initially and the first Incisive Neutral filter. 2.5V in DAC mode for the TT2 was far too much. Thus why that was set to PRE and lowered to 1.5V.
  • Instantly more hiss when no music playing. Always been some if I kneel in front of the speaker but now it’s audible from the listening position.
  • As much detail if not more than the TT2 but at the expense of mid range warmth and certain instruments sounding surprisingly unrealistic. Music thus far sounds like recordings than music and it is all, as per our demo 3 years ago, too forward and in your face. Will be interesting to see how it changes over the next few days.
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2V output is the norm these days. Agree about the instructions, they’re as esoteric as is the user experience of the DAC. If you’re hearing hiss at the listening position it sounds as if something is seriously awry; does this happen if using 2V output?

You’re certainly hearing more pronounced differences between the two than I could with them side by side although I’m guessing the hiss can’t help; mind you I am getting on a bit. Just out of interest what amps and speakers are you using?
 
Mike Hughes said:
TT2 developed an issue so has gone back to dealer for an initial look. They have loaned me a Qutest, which was very kind of them. So, an opportunity to hear at home what we didn’t like in the shop.

Initial thoughts are as follows:
  • Yes it’s a sturdy brick but the Input and Filter buttons don’t feel high quality.
  • The lack of a basic on/off button came as a shock. Wall control only.
  • The packaging feels much higher quality than for the TT2.
  • The operating instructions are dreadful. Only 4 small sides and in a font size that even someone with perfect vision would struggle with. Had to use my 8x readers obtained via a low vision assessment.
  • Inevitably the instructions omit basic information. So, yes, you get 16 seconds to set the voltage and it’s not hard to do but theres an implication you do this when disconnected from source and pre and it’s never really made clear. It’s also wholly unstated what the default voltage is. Literally no idea. Took a punt and connected it to streamer and pre whilst they were powered up and the latter was muted on an unused input. Seems okay but who knows. Set to 1V initially and the first Incisive Neutral filter. 2.5V in DAC mode for the TT2 was far too much. Thus why that was set to PRE and lowered to 1.5V.
  • Instantly more hiss when no music playing. Always been some if I kneel in front of the speaker but now it’s audible from the listening position.
  • As much detail if not more than the TT2 but at the expense of mid range warmth and certain instruments sounding surprisingly unrealistic. Music thus far sounds like recordings than music and it is all, as per our demo 3 years ago, too forward and in your face. Will be interesting to see how it changes over the next few days.
Click to expand...
With a half decent power supply instead of the factory supplied one I preferred the Qutest over the TT2. I never had any hiss from the Qutest. It was absolutely silent when no music was playing.
 
I’ll be listening more tonight and tomorrow. Two people have now said the hiss would worry them but I can’t say it does me. It’s a loan so it’ll be going back and it’s audible bit not intrusive. I am kind of pleased that the characteristics we detected at shop demo have been replicated 3 years later at hone as it suggests the correct decision was made in getting the TT2.
 
I get no more hiss through my speakers with the Qutest than I do with an empty line input.

Since I bought my Qutest I've no real inclination to move around in DAC world at all - and the LPSU I've just put on it has onl;y increased that happy inertia.
 
Weird responses tbh. I’ve no evidence that the increase in hiss is because of the Qutest. I just know that its been a consequence of the forced absence of the TT2. It doesn’t matter as it’ll be going back soon enough.

camverton said:
Just out of interest what amps and speakers are you using?
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Naim and Zu.

Tim Jones said:
Since I bought my Qutest I've no real inclination to move around in DAC world at all - and the LPSU I've just put on it has onl;y increased that happy inertia.
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Since I’ve had the TT2 I’ve had no inclination to add an LPSU or an M-Scalar. Last upgrade I did was getting a decent quality repeater, which has provided a significant uplift.

I‘m now very clear that the detail on the Qutest has a more defined leading edge than on the TT2 but there’s also a more neutral mid range whereas that little bit of warmth on the TT2 is very welcome by me. It remains the case that the Qutest puts you near the stage but the TT2 sits you a few rows back. That’s fine by me. A couple of decades ago it may have been the Qutest all the way for me. Now it’s definitely not. Each to their own. Also noticeable that the Qutest has a much flatter soundstage front to back and something very weird going on with electronic keyboard timbres, which it gets quite wrong and unnatural.
 
Before I just go with Andrew’s well-considered recommendation - any direct experience comparisons of a Mojo 2 vs original Hugo or vs Qutest?
 
It may well be that the Qutest choice of output levels is done with digital attenuation, the manual doesn't state it but the control method suggests it. Especially if it's digital (but even if it's not) when the input sensitivity of your downstream thing (preamp or integrated I guess) is 2V or more, then Qutest at 2V will sound better than 1V.

(Depending on whether you're using digital attenuation in the transport and/or considering 3V then optimal approach would need more definitive info about the Qutest.)
 
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darrenyeats said:
It may well be that the Qutest choice of output levels is done with digital attenuation, the manual doesn't state it but the control method suggests it. Especially if it's digital (but even if it's not) when the input sensitivity of your downstream thing (preamp or integrated I guess) is 2V or more, then Qutest at 2V will sound better than 1V.

(Depending on whether you're using digital attenuation in the transport and/or considering 3V then optimal approach would need more definitive info about the Qutest.)
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Naim pre so 2V is spot on. I doubt the Qutest uses digital attenuation and my Innuos stays on 100%.

After an afternoon of listening I can say that 2V brings it closer to the TT2 but not too close.. Loads of PRaT but definitely reduced ambient detail and back to front soundstage.
 
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The Mojo/ Hugo/ etc attenuation is digital, but handled very early in the chain, to advantage. At the point the Hugo + Mojo were new in 2016, I was paying attention and saved this snippet off some online discussion mid 2017:

quote:

.... the volume control is in the central WTA filter core, and has an internal accuracy of 51 bits. But it then gets passed to the 3 stage interpolation filters to take it to 2048FS, then into the OP noise shapers. So the 51 bits has to be truncated. But since the signal is at 16FS, the truncation is done via noise shaping and dithering. This means that the signal is not lost, but perfectly preserved, as this process adds zero distortion - just a fixed noise at -180dB. This has been verified with Verilog simulation.

Rob
 
I was wondering why this 3year old thread had come back to life but I see you’re all still comparing 🤣. Since back then I’ve sold the Naim amp and the DACs. I bought a Chord Cyan click integrated amp with the built in DAC. glorious sounding and much better than the Naim. It’s currently in for a power supply upgraded with Chord so should be ready for Christmas. 😁😁😁
 
Mike Hughes said:
Don’t be ludicrous. I hear what I hear with regards to soundstaging; timbal accuracy and noise floor. Have just taken some measurements on speaker hiss at the different voltages with the pre set to zero; muted and on an unused and used input. The differences are clear enough. You have no idea what I hear as you don’t have my ears just as I don’t have yours but there’s no assumption here. I’ve tested with measurements and other ears. Kindly bore off.
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I certainly found it important to choose the appropriate output on the Qutest for whatever it feeds. Of course other folk might not notice any difference when using the different output voltages for any number of reasons, from partnering equipment, their own hearing to being highly opinionated and enjoying an online argument ;) .
 
Depends on context. E.g. if pre doesn't have a stepped attenuator then it likely will work better in a certain range, so the DAC output level will interact.

*All else equal and keeping within sensitivity specs* it's usually better to use higher levels and attenuate (or amplify less) later in the chain (though some small digital attenuation early can benefit some systems).
 
Personally in my system I believe the volume output level on my TT2 makes a very slight difference to the sound, others feel differently. Is it really worth arguing about as each can choose the option that suits them best and leave others to do the same.
 
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