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Check your Garrard 301/401 spindles for wear if using upgraded bearings!

GWM said:
Hi Errol mines got a depression in it to so must others.
Geoff
Click to expand...

It's good to know that I am not alone with this. :) It looks exactly like the 1mm hole I drilled into a piece of steel today. I have also bought another bearing today, so I can play swapsies. I will keep you all posted on sound differences etc.
Errol
ps; still working on the pics I will wait till the new bearing arrives then set the one with the dimple up for photos..
 
If you have a flatbed scanner might be easier to just put the flat face of the spindle onto that, then scan at say 600dpi. Would come out much better than a digital photo I think and would show more detail.

- J
 
That's the phospur bronze one I was using before the Kokomo. I seem to remember that is also a picture of my very own 301 bearing too as he needed the exact dimensions at the time so I sent him my bearing assembley to measure/photograph (at that point he only had the 401 version out).

Far better value for money than the Kokomo, and - I cannot prove this without a time machine - but I'm sure it wasn't the phosphur bronze version in those links which caused the wear to my spindle, but the Kokomo.
 
valveheaduk said:
That's the phospur bronze one I was using before the Kokomo. I seem to remember that is also a picture of my very own 301 bearing too as he needed the exact dimensions at the time so I sent him my bearing assembley to measure/photograph (at that point he only had the 401 version out).

Far better value for money than the Kokomo, and - I cannot prove this without a time machine - but I'm sure it wasn't the phosphur bronze version in those links which caused the wear to my spindle, but the Kokomo.
Click to expand...

The phosphor bronze shouldn't cause damage as it is much softer than the spindle and, like sacrificial lime render/pointing, designed to wear.

I have this for my 401 but am inclined to find replacements for the original design which are replicas or near replicas. There are comments on other forums about the flat bearing being a useful design feature as part of a strategy to reduce excessive bearing noise. This seems antithetical but in fact, the idler drive (like a belt) will cause precessional motion on the spindle so having some movement at the base will do something to relieve tension in the bearing structure and decrease any tendency to transmit more noise along the spindle and back into the platter/stylus structure as a result of increased contact pressure (aided by a point source contact bearing reflecting energy back along the spindle rather than transmitting it into the bearing, the bearing housing and ultimately the plinth through a lossy process). Or at least that appears to be some of the thinking, I believe.

HD.
 
Chaps

I am collecting my 401 tomorrow from the guy who works at Loricraft.

Does anyone want any questions passed on. I can relay the answers back to you.

Regards

Mick
 
hairyderriere

Despite the fact that your name is tasteless and that Loricraft are effectively on holiday on nearly 3 weeks, I will endevour to get you a price.

Regards

Mick
 
Off topic - I received my restored from Loricraft today. Absolutely top notch job for anyone who's been considering it. Great blokes to chat with as well.

Re: 401 bearings, Terry mentioned that he does offer 401 bearings for installation in 301s so he must have some. Whether he'd sell them separately and, if so, for what price I'm not sure.
 
Given this steady accumulation of evidence I'm wondering whether it may be appropriate to seek a refund as it seems to me that the Kokomo, not the cheapest modification, may be unfit for the purpose sold.
 
I was thinking the same thing, or at least - out of good will - a free replacement/upgrade to his newer version which he is working on at the moment. It's not so much the cost of the bearing that I am annoyed at (though that is part of it - they ain't cheap!) so much as the wear to an original spindle. The advert for Kokomo specifically states that the bearing will wear before the spindle, which is quite obviously NOT the case at all judging by all the evidence here. The guy who runs ATA is a really nice chap, and I do feel bad in a way as obviously nobody is out to create something which might damage a Garrard spindle, and before the wear was discovered most of us were enjoying the extra sound quality bought about by this mod. But the fact is there IS a problem here. If you buy something unfit for its purpose then surely one should be eligible for a replacement free of charge?

I'm probably sh*t out of luck here as I bought mine second-hand from Tony, though he'd only used it for a couple evenings.
 
Valveheaduk

You said ... and before the wear was discovered most of us were enjoying the extra sound quality bought about by this mod.

There is absolutely no evidence that this new bearing improved the sound, absolutely no evidence at all.

It is foolish statements like this, that cause impressionable people to buy these silly components.

I have just had an original bearing fitted this week and unlike you I have not possibly damaged a perfectly good turntable.

Please select your words with more care.

Regards

Mick
 
Mick, a little Google search would bring up dozens of testimonials from satisfied users of the Kokomo bearing upgrade, if you happened to take the time/effort to have a look yourself. I DID notice an upgrade in sound, in terms of better speed stability, lowered noise floor, and a better delineation of the subtle details in the music. Many others have reported the same benefits, not just with the Kokomo but the JClovemusic type offered on Ebay.

Many people have FUN with this hobby of ours, which often involves upgrades/experimentation - you name it. It's the same with any other hobby. There's also nothing wrong with those who wish to use their equipment 'stock' either - neither is right nor wrong. It appears there is a problem with an upgrade - I thought it best to begin this thread because of it, and to possibly save some potential spindle damage. I am not here to throw stones at anybody. Do you have a problem with this?

I have noticed your posts around here, and you seem to take the 'the manufacturer is always correct' approach, which is of course your perogative. Quite often they DO know best - of course. However items are always built down to a price point. Nothing is perfect. Technlogy moves ever onwards - better ways to do things are discovered. That's what pushes things forward. It is evident you almost despise those that experiment, and DIY - with that being the case, why bother posting to a site which has a very clear DIY/hands on slant to it? Do you get pleasure out of pointing out mistakes to people?

Quite frankly I resent the snide tone of your reply - I have no axe to grind with anybody on here, unlike you it seems. Please choose YOUR comments with more care in the future...

- John
 
Mick Parry said:
Valveheaduk

You said ... and before the wear was discovered most of us were enjoying the extra sound quality bought about by this mod.

There is absolutely no evidence that this new bearing improved the sound, absolutely no evidence at all.

It is foolish statements like this, that cause impressionable people to buy these silly components.

I have just had an original bearing fitted this week and unlike you I have not possibly damaged a perfectly good turntable.

Please select your words with more care.

Regards

Mick
Click to expand...

Hi Mick, have you heard your 401 with a Kokomo and with the standard bearing?
 
Errol

To be honest I have not heard a Kokomo bearing but I know 3 people who have and all 3 agreed that the sound was worsened and that the risk to damaging the turntable was increased.

The 401 bearing is now over 50 years old in design, so it is likely that modern technology could have overtaken it which could result in a better sound. Therefore if someone makes statements such as "most of us were enjoying the extra sound quality bought about by this mod." many people will be inclined to buy it. The unfortunate consequence in this particular instance is that a perfectly good turntable could have been damaged.

The one lesson you need to learn on hifi fora is to chose your wording correctly. Unfortunately many so called hifi enthusiasts are basically brain dead. I have lost count of the instances where someone says I have a system comprising of whatever, what speakers do you recommend. You then get a flood of advice suggesting every speaker under the sun and not one of these idiots has even thought to ask whether the speaker is to go up to the wall or out in the room. Such is the low level of advice sometimes offered and I just wish people would think before making wild statements.

There is, fortunately, also a lot of good advice offered, but as in all walks of life, there is also a lot of illiteracy.

Regards

Mick
 
3 people? Wow that must make you some kind of expert here Mick.

I have spent an intriguing afternoon having a look at many of your posts here Mick. A trend became quickly obvious: You seem to positively delight in pointing what you perceive as faults and flaws in an extremely annoying, snide, offensive and self-righteous manner. Who are you to accuse those that experiment and/or wish to get better performance out of a well reviewed upgrade of 1) being foolish 2) being illiterate and 3) brain dead? How dare you! If you dislike these practices MOVE ON - make your comments elsewhere please.

Your post here has added NOTHING of value, except to make you feel some kind of smug satisfaction from throwing stones at someone who's done nothing to yourself.

Congratulations Mick - in over 15+ years of using the internet you are the very first person I have deemed annoying/pathetic enough to add to my ignore list. Way to go.
 
valvehead

The 3 people I spoke to were 3 people who currently work restoring Garrards.

The simple fact is that you made an outlandish statement which could easily mis lead people.

Instead of sulking, you should learn from it.

Regards

Mick
 
What you seem to be ignoring is the motives of those who make their money from restoring Garrard's, they also have an agenda.

The truth of either can only be found in making a personal comparison, old and new. In Hifi the opinion of others is highly subjective and often a matter of taste.
 
Mark

The people I deal with know what they are talking about and want to be in business 20 years from now. They experiment all the time and if they say something is right, you can bet your bottom dollar it is.

I accept we all have different ears but that does not excuse making wild statements.

Regards

Mick
 
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