PaulMB
pfm Member
Can't get good gun-bearers these days.
Charleston church shooting
- Thread starter rally
- Start date
Can't get good gun-bearers these days.
monkfish
pfm Member
I see what you are saying, that atrocities can be due to other things and we don't call for them to be removed, but guns are designed to kill people, that's what they are for.
PaulMB
pfm Member
Yes, very true. And I expect that someone who has guns lying around and has fantasysied about "blowing people away" can "slide" into actually doing it more easily than someone who would have to go through a complex and time consuming screening process to buy one. By which time they will have calmed down or been deemed unfit to buy one.
Yes, but if he'd had access to guns he would have shot at the police and possibly killed one or more, so it would have ben worse still. The very fact that he could be overpowered speaks for itself.
As others have said, cars have a use beyond killing people and there are millions out there making people's lives easier. I have 2 hands and I could certainly kill people with them, but not very easily. Guns don't have many uses other than killing things. Unfortunately the number of guns in use for knocking up a nice salad is rather low.
The saddest thing about this tale is that I hear that the man responsible almost didn't go through with his crime because the people in the church were so pleasant and welcoming to him that he warmed to them. If only he'd taken a leaf out of their book.
blossomchris
I feel better than James Brown
I knew a carpenter who had an argument with his girlfriend, told her he was going to shoot her. Drove across town to his abode (4 mile round trip)returned and blew her lower jaw away. fortunately she survived. He had at least 10/15mins to cool-off if he so desired.
Bloss
Bloss
monkfish
pfm Member
Paul R
pfm Member
Somebody planning a terror attack might be prepared to jump through the hoops. We're in hypothetical territory here.
By whom?
Raoul Moat managed to walk out of prison and source a shotgun, commit murder and not get 'taken down'.
Paul
Yes he did. Fortunately he wasn't able to get his hands on an automatic weapon. As for "taken down by whom", we do have armed response police in UK cities. I spoke to one, he had a 9mm Glock on his hip. I don't want to see Glocks on the streets of Leeds but if they have to be there then someone who has had extensive training and receives constant psychological monitoring is a better person to hold one than every other bloke out there.
Cav
pfm Member
Shotguns allowed are three barrel or single bore with three shot manual pump reload. Whilst reloading in a confined space I suspect the potential victims would take you down - a heavy candlestick is a righteous weapon.
Cav
pfm Member
Moat was not in a confined space and killed how many - 3 - in 2 days?
Imagine if he had an automatic pistol or semi-auto rifle.
I am not sure what your point is.
Arkless Electronics
Trade: Amp design and repairs.
According to a news article I read earlier it could well have been coincidence that the victims were black rather than planned for racist reasons. He was supposedly on his way to a college to do his evil deed when he happened across the church.
No, you're in the clear. On the other hand, I have a 9mm fully auto with the extended clip and I'm trying to knock up a nice celery remoulade, it's f*ing useless. No sooner do I get a nice bit of mayonnaise together and some washed celery before BLAMMA-BLAMMA-BLAMMA and FFS there's plaster raining down off the walls, the celery is all over the place, still not shredded and the mayo has curdled. Honestly. I paid £2k for this thing, should have bought a Magimix.I was avoiding salad for that reason, does this mean I have to eat it now ?
tones
Tones deaf
The reaction of an NRA Board member to the shooting was appalling:
http://takingnote.blogs.nytimes.com...o-the-murders-in-charleston/?ref=opinion&_r=0
Even the NRA thought it was going too far and removed the comment. but there's no doubt that this is how it sees the situation, an extension of the argument "the only counter to a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun". So, the logical end is that the whole place becomes on giant shooting gallery.
http://takingnote.blogs.nytimes.com...o-the-murders-in-charleston/?ref=opinion&_r=0
Even the NRA thought it was going too far and removed the comment. but there's no doubt that this is how it sees the situation, an extension of the argument "the only counter to a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun". So, the logical end is that the whole place becomes on giant shooting gallery.
clifftaylor
Absolutely retired!
Yes, I heard an interview on R4 this morning with a mate of his who is black, who had never heard him say anything racist - although I'm a bit confused by the Confederate flag in that case. If you need a (hollow) laugh, check out http://dixienet.org/
I don't know that the conf flag is inherently racist. It's an emblem of the US South, an emblem of the rebel. Yes, it has been adopted by racists and the South were fighting for the right to keep slaves, but not everyone sees it that way. I know I bought a confederate flag headscarf 15 years ago on holiday in that area, used it to keep the sun off. Neither I nor my pal are racists, neither thought it was an unsuitable subject for a scarf. These days I don't wear it, but that's maybe a modified perspective. Certainly a lot of Americans see it as simply "rebel" rather than "slave holding white supremacist rebel".
I know. It really is the Christian belief that sins are forgiven and only God my call you to account. I'm bloody sure I wouldn't be saying "I forgive him, he will be judged by God" 3 days after the shooting if my family were involved. I don't see the families of the victims calling for him to be killed, I suspect they will be the first campaigning for him not to hang but to be imprisoned. I feel the same, he should be given time to reflect on wht he's done.
maxflinn
pfm Member
According to reports in Haaretz he wrote a racist manifesto online.
http://www.haaretz.com/news/world/1.662174
"On the website called the Last Rhodesian – a reference to the white-ruled state that preceded Zimbabwe – Dylann says that though he was “not raised in a racist environment”, he came to develop "racial awareness" in wake of the shooting of Trayvon Martin by George Zimmerman. His investigation into “black on white crime,” he wrote, led him to understand that the African-American community posed a threat to whites in the U.S. and that it was on him to take action.
“I have no choice. I am not in the position to, alone, go into the ghetto and fight. I chose Charleston because it is most historic city in my state, and at one time had the highest ratio of blacks to Whites in the country,” Roof wrote.
“We have no skinheads, no real KKK, no one doing anything but talking on the internet. Well someone has to have the bravery to take it to the real world, and I guess that has to be me."
http://www.haaretz.com/news/world/1.662174
"On the website called the Last Rhodesian – a reference to the white-ruled state that preceded Zimbabwe – Dylann says that though he was “not raised in a racist environment”, he came to develop "racial awareness" in wake of the shooting of Trayvon Martin by George Zimmerman. His investigation into “black on white crime,” he wrote, led him to understand that the African-American community posed a threat to whites in the U.S. and that it was on him to take action.
“I have no choice. I am not in the position to, alone, go into the ghetto and fight. I chose Charleston because it is most historic city in my state, and at one time had the highest ratio of blacks to Whites in the country,” Roof wrote.
“We have no skinheads, no real KKK, no one doing anything but talking on the internet. Well someone has to have the bravery to take it to the real world, and I guess that has to be me."