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Challenge plain-clothes officers, Met Police says

paulfromcamden

paulfromcamden

Baffled
People stopped by a lone plain-clothes officer should challenge their legitimacy, the Met Police says. As it seeks to reassure women after the murder of Sarah Everard by a serving police officer, the Met said it was "entirely reasonable" to demand an officer's identity and intentions. Wayne Couzens showed a warrant card and used handcuffs as he kidnapped Ms Everard before her rape and murder.

The force advised people detained by a lone plain-clothes officer to ask "where are your colleagues" and "where have you come from?" It suggested other "very searching questions", including "why are you here" and "exactly why are you stopping or talking to me?" The force said that, to verify the answers, people should ask to speak to an operator on a police radio to determine if the officer is genuine and acting legitimately.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-58757375

I can't help but wonder how some plain clothes officers are going to respond to being questioned like this.
 
Met Police in full damage control mode. Others have made the point that the suggested checks would not have saved Sarah Everard: genuine ID, plausible intention, etc.
Talk to an operator on a police radio? How does that work? Excuse me officer, before you can handcuff me I'd like to use your radio? Even a call to his base would have confirmed he was a genuine officer, etc.
 
Would anyone have the vaguest idea what a genuine warrant card looks like?

Last time i was stop and searched it was very quick, didn't have time to think about details.
 
Bart said:
The force needs to challenge them and sort them out before they do any damage.
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Yes. The solution here is not telling people how they should challenge a police officer, but in restoring trust in the officers. That means rigorous vetting, and real consequences for stepping out of line. That also requires a clear and safe means for colleagues to police each other, without fear of reprisals; not to mention safe, robust and realistic whistleblowing processes. It’s a culture change thing. It’ll probably not happen :( for a generation.
 
Sue Pertwee-Tyr said:
Yes. The solution here is not telling people how they should challenge a police officer, but in restoring trust in the officers. That means rigorous vetting, and real consequences for stepping out of line. That also requires a clear and safe means for colleagues to police each other, without fear of reprisals; not to mention safe, robust and realistic whistleblowing processes. It’s a culture change thing. It’ll probably not happen :( for a generation.
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Agree with all of this.

This piece by Sky does a good job of laying out the failings in the case of Couzens:
https://news.sky.com/story/sarah-ev...l-need-to-answer-about-wayne-couzens-12421848

I don't have any axe to grind with individual officers. My few interactions with the police have thankfully mostly been positive. But there needs to be a top-down culture change. Indecent exposure by a serving officer should be treated as a serious matter.

There's frustrating degree of inevitability when you read "Away from Couzens himself, the watchdog is also investigating a number of officers from the Met, his old force the CNC, and Norfolk Constabulary for alleged misconduct during the Sarah Everard investigation."
 
paulfromcamden said:
People stopped by a lone plain-clothes officer should challenge their legitimacy, the Met Police says. As it seeks to reassure women after the murder of Sarah Everard by a serving police officer, the Met said it was "entirely reasonable" to demand an officer's identity and intentions. Wayne Couzens showed a warrant card and used handcuffs as he kidnapped Ms Everard before her rape and murder.
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It is a bizarre statement. A lone woman (or in fact most people) would be powerless in Sarah Everard’s position. She would still have been forced into the car had he demanded identity, backup etc. It is a truly horrific case, just unimaginable, but it needs structural safeguards rather than placing this responsibility onto the potential victim. The police force need to introduce measures so there can be no lone arrests. Nothing done without backup and audio/visual documentation.

PS Cressida Dick needs to go. She has been in the top seat for so many truly awful police incidents now her position is absolutely untenable. The police thuggery/brutality towards the Sarah Everard vigil a while back being a prime example. She just isn’t a potential solution to the distrust so many feel towards the police force these days.
 
Tony L said:
The police force need to introduce measures so there can be no lone arrests. Nothing done without backup and audio/visual documentation.
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Given that (From @Bob McC post above) "Deputy Commissioner Sir Stephen House … noted that off-duty officers not in uniform "put themselves on duty" when they come across an incident...” a blanket rule that is simply not reasonable. That would lead to situations where a serving off-duty officer couldn't act to stop a crime in progress.

I agree it should be standard now for all actions to be recorded but I think that's already covered with the use of body mounted cameras and in-car cameras.
 
Tony L said:
The police force need to introduce measures so there can be no lone arrests.
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That would not work in my view and it would be a godsend for the criminal minority. Allot of officers work alone nowadays backed up by the radio system and nearby officers when called for. Lone officers still need to make lone arrests, otherwise criminals will just get away and know how to do so before backup arrives.

Seeker_UK said:
I agree it should be standard now for all actins to be recorded but I think that's already covered with the use of body mounted cameras and in-car cameras.
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Most is recorded nowadays. We have already seen a snippet from the officers bodycam footage just before they arrested Wayne Couzens.
 
The response from the Met is bordering on the insane. "Question an officers legitimacy"? What? The scumbag that murdered that poor woman was a serving police officer, how much more legitimate does it get? All this nonsense about being "off duty" - if you're engaging with public in an official capacity and arresting someone, you're clearly on duty. As usual, the Police demonstrate with complete clarity how dirty, corrupt and unfit it is as an organisation. Any remedies to this sort of thing - plus stop and search, systemic racism, systemic corruption, brutality, any of their many, significant failings - needs to be dealt with by the Police, not the public. They are there to serve us, yet are so arrogant and power crazed that they're incapable of self-reflection. Officers need to be held to higher standards than anyone else - and this is clearly absolutely failing since this POS who's just been sent to jail was known as "rapist" amongst other officers, had a history of lewd behaviour in public places and allegedly had a problem with cocaine and interest in extreme violent pornography. He should never have been in this position in the first place.

The Met can get to **** if they think that the public needs to do anything to address these issues.

Dick needs to go - Patel needs to hoof her, if she can't, or won't, then they both need to go.
 
I don’t want lone police officers facing a terrorist about to or actually committing an atrocity being prevented from trying to arrest them until they are more than one.
 
I can’t remember the last time I saw a police officer on foot.
We get the occasional cardboard copper patrolling the village but a real copper, no.
 
Bob McC said:
I can’t remember the last time I saw a police officer on foot.
We get the occasional cardboard copper patrolling the village but a real copper, no.
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We regularly get pairs of mounted police from the Lewisham stables ambling down our street. I love seeing the horses* and you often get a cheery wave from one of the coppers. Plus the horse poo in the street gives it a slightly rural feel.

A popular complaint from locals is that if they spotted a villain they wouldn't be able to pursue because someone would have to look after the horses. No pleasing some folk!

* though wish they weren't placed in stressful/dangerous situations patrolling riots etc.
 
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