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CD transports

S

sls4321

pfm Member
The main selling point of the Esoteric disc players is the VRDS mechanism
http://www.esoteric-highend.eu/vrds-neo-mechanism/

I appreciate that Esoteric is a TEAC brand, and I have a CD player from another TEAC brand, the Tascam CD200 (£180) that has the CD-5020A transport. I also have a Denon DN-500BD DVD, BluRay, CD, network, usb, balanced outputs (£299).

For decades I used CDs in my business for saving and transferring financial and other data. I used computers or £20 external CD drives. They were always error-free. I have ripped 800 CDs using bit perfect software, again on a device using a TEAC drive, using external verification, again error-free. I always favoured TEAC as it has been, I understand, the largest supplier of CD drives to the world's computer suppliers.

I was always under the impression that extracting 100% accurate data from a CD was a basic pre-requisite of the technology, achieved before its release in 1982.

Is there any objective evidence that the VDRS mechanism reads data any more or less accurately than the TEAC CD-5020A transport in my TASCAM CD200 or any other disc spinner with error correction?
 
sls4321 said:
The main selling point of the Esoteric disc players is the VRDS mechanism
http://www.esoteric-highend.eu/vrds-neo-mechanism/

I appreciate that Esoteric is a TEAC brand, and I have a CD player from another TEAC brand, the Tascam CD200 (£180) that has the CD-5020A transport. I also have a Denon DN-500BD DVD, BluRay, CD, network, usb, balanced outputs (£299).

For decades I used CDs in my business for saving and transferring financial and other data. I used computers or £20 external CD drives. They were always error-free. I have ripped 800 CDs using bit perfect software, again on a device using a TEAC drive, using external verification, again error-free. I always favoured TEAC as it has been, I understand, the largest supplier of CD drives to the world's computer suppliers.

I was always under the impression that extracting 100% accurate data from a CD was a basic pre-requisite of the technology, achieved before its release in 1982.

Is there any objective evidence that the VDRS mechanism reads data any more or less accurately than the TEAC CD-5020A transport in my TASCAM CD200 or any other disc spinner with error correction?
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I wouldn't have thought so, 'pride of ownership ' perhaps.
Keith
 
Most of the dacs we sell are either in ' preamps ' Mola-mola, Phison, or in the loudspeakers themselves Grimm,Kii, B&O , I admit I enjoy an aesthetically pleasing design and nicely constructed enclosure.
Keith
 
Purite Audio said:
Most of the dacs we sell are either in ' preamps ' Mola-mola, Phison, or in the loudspeakers themselves Grimm,Kii, B&O , I admit I enjoy an aesthetically pleasing design and nicely constructed enclosure.
Keith
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Are those also bought for "pride of ownership"?
 
I choose components for their technical competency but of course aesthetics are important.
A solid aluminium mech won't improve sound quality but it might help sales.
Keith
 
Purite Audio said:
I choose components for their technical competency but of course aesthetics are important.
A solid aluminium mech won't improve sound quality but it might help sales.
Keith
Click to expand...



How do the highly priced DACs that you sell improve sound quality?

Or how does a Mola-Mola pre-amp improve sound quality?
 
sls4321 said:
Is there any objective evidence that the VDRS mechanism reads data any more or less accurately than the TEAC CD-5020A transport
Click to expand...

This is a similar question to "do CD transport make a difference?" my answer if you want hi-fi then yes they do. Esoteric will probably give you the numbers you want, but the VRDS mechanism in my Wadia sounded pretty good. So as they always say give one a listen in your system, if you only want background music then don't bother.
 
ssimon said:
This is a similar question to "do CD transport make a difference?" my answer if you want hi-fi then yes they do. Esoteric will probably give you the numbers you want, but the VRDS mechanism in my Wadia sounded pretty good. So as they always say give one a listen in your system, if you only want background music then don't bother.
Click to expand...

My question starting this thread was to do with the transport only, not the DAC, filtering, output stage or other bits of electronics that surround the mechanism itself.

I read that the VDRS mechanism as an OEM part as used in your Wadia costs about $3,000. The CD-5020A probably costs $50 or less. I cannot imagine for the reasons originally stated why they should produce a different stream of 1's and 0's.

I was promted to make the OP by reading some spectacular BS reviews of an Esoteric device, e.g.:
http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/esoteric-k-03x-cdsacd-player/?page=2

What I find amusing/worrying is when I read reviews of machines supplying digital signals or analogue signals from a digital source that blather on about enhanced bass or treble, etc. With analogue equipment where the data is stored and extracted mechanically with a stylus, there are sound physical reasons for different response over the audible frequency spectrum. The same applies when using underpowered valve amplifiers that cannot meet the demands of speakers (and therefore modify the sound/tone). But I cannot possibly think of any reason why a digital source should perform differently at any particular point of the frequency spectrum than at any other. The 1's and 0's do not know if they are coding 50hz or 5000hz. If such things are heard in subjective listening, they must surely be due to other elements in the audio chain or the room characteristics.

So is verbiage about "wonderful bass" and "restrained treble" etc generated by a digital device complete and total BS, or am I mistaken?
 
ssimon said:
This is a similar question to "do CD transport make a difference?" my answer if you want hi-fi then yes they do. Esoteric will probably give you the numbers you want, but the VRDS mechanism in my Wadia sounded pretty good. So as they always say give one a listen in your system, if you only want background music then don't bother.
Click to expand...

The other aspect of your response is the audio money tree issue of better costs more.

I have some expensive components, e.g. speakers, turntable/arm and a made-to-measure phono amplifier, costing several thousand each. I do not consider my £180 CD transport to be a compromise on quality.

Likewise, I do not see why the digital data should flow any less accurately down a shielded £2 usb cable than a £200 cable. The balance on your bank account is dependent on the accurate transmission of data in vast server banks, and I doubt they use Nordost Odin usb cables at £1,000/m. But cables are another issue altogether.
 
A cd is not purely solid state digital in that there is a motor spinning. A motor contains magnets and bearings. Although the laser is reading 1s and zeros, a noisy, vibrating motor could send electrical signals into the circuit.
 
In Keith's defence, he does of course sell several product ranges using Bruno Putzey's designs and ideas, which are truly groundbreaking in both professional (e.g. Grimm) and consumer audio, which have already and are likely to continue to have a major impact on quality audio lifestyle products. They are not mass-market, there is a lot of R&D involved, so they are going to cost. That said, for what they are, the Grimm offer very good value and I reckon the Kii could also be a hit.
 
venton said:
A cd is not purely solid state digital in that there is a motor spinning. A motor contains magnets and bearings. Although the laser is reading 1s and zeros, a noisy, vibrating motor could send electrical signals into the circuit.
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... all of which I understand can be eliminated cheaply by error correction. Am I wrong in saying it is possible to get 100% accurate data off a CD, as I did for business use over decades?
 
sls4321 said:
... all of which I understand can be eliminated cheaply by error correction. Am I wrong in saying it is possible to get 100% accurate data off a CD, as I did for business use over decades?
Click to expand...

I'm no expert, but it stands to reason that even if the data is bit perfect, the mechanism may introduce electrical noise into nearby components which will affect the sound circuitry.
For business data this is of no account but for hifi reproduction it may be audible.
 
venton said:
I'm no expert, but it stands to reason that even if the data is bit perfect, the mechanism may introduce electrical noise into nearby components which will affect the sound circuitry.
For business data this is of no account but for hifi reproduction it may be audible.
Click to expand...
Not sure whether this would convince me. Using an optical cable instead of a BNC/RCA coaxial or an USB cable should eliminate potential issues related to electronical noise as a cause.
a dca
 
a dca said:
Not sure whether this would convince me. Using an optical cable instead of a BNC/RCA coaxial or an USB cable should eliminate potential issues related to electronical noise as a cause.
a dca
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IMO the most important issue about CD transports is not their ability to provide a bit perfect data transmission to the DAC.

It's jitter levels, how much EMI/ RFI they transmit to the DAC and how good their SPDIF interface is.
 
Purite Audio said:
I choose components for their technical competency but of course aesthetics are important.
A solid aluminium mech won't improve sound quality but it might help sales.
Keith
Click to expand...

Rubbish. Your inconsistencies, hypocrisy and nonsense on this forum are here for all to see. How you have any customers is beyond me.

Worst of all is the way you are happy to spout your nonsense as nauseum but every time someone puts you on the spot or asks you a direct question you just vanish for a while until you reappear with the same crap.
 
Getting back on topic . . .

I love CDs and gave a collection of about 3,000. I want them to sound as good as they possibly can. I have no interest in time consuming ripping on some cheapo bit of computer gear.

Over the 30 years since I bought my first CD Player I've had dozens. They've all sounded different. I've had three transports. They've all sounded different. The PS Audio one I have now is significantly better than the machine it replaced. I know this because I played the two side by side over a period of two weeks.

The PS Audio was significantly smoother at the top and with a more rhythmic bass.
 
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