mansr
Objectionist
Of course not. Low-rate MP3 is terrible. FLAC preserves all the information exactly, just like a zip file. By transporting the same information using fewer bits, the risk of random corruption is lowered.
CD ripping
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vince rocker
pfm Member
Compute a checksum of your WAV file.
Convert it to FLAC using a bit perfect ripper.
Convert the FLAC back to WAV using a bit perfect ripper.
Compute a checksum of the new WAV file and compare.
If they are the same there can be no audible differences. The FLAC must be an exact copy of the WAV because when you reconvert it the WAV files are identical.
If they are not the same there is a problem with your ripping software.
An extension of the original question: what (if any) is the consensus for the most accurate ripping tool for someone who uses Linux rather than Windows or OSX?
When I last did it with large numbers of CDs I used EAC, but that was a ~long~ time ago, and I don't use Windows at all any more.
I use Mint, which is based on the core parts of Ubuntu, and there are a few rippers in the standard software repository: SoundJuicer, RipperX, Asunder and CDParanoia being the most obvious ones. Anyone here have any recommendations, or warnings of ones to avoid?
When I last did it with large numbers of CDs I used EAC, but that was a ~long~ time ago, and I don't use Windows at all any more.
I use Mint, which is based on the core parts of Ubuntu, and there are a few rippers in the standard software repository: SoundJuicer, RipperX, Asunder and CDParanoia being the most obvious ones. Anyone here have any recommendations, or warnings of ones to avoid?
mansr
Objectionist
Most Linux CD ripping tools use cdparanoia behind the scenes. In my experience, it works as well as any other. With damaged CDs, rippers use different strategies with varying outcomes. EAC is supposedly among the best at handling difficult discs. On the rare occasions I buy a CD, I rip it immediately, so I'm not too concerned about that aspect.
I would suggest you pick whichever tool you like best. Automatic database lookup and tagging is obviously a nice feature, though I suspect it's hard to find a front-end without it. I'd be surprised if there were any difference in the audio data they extract. If you're paranoid, you could always try several and compare the files.
I used to think this, and ripped using WAV too, until I ABX tested it (using Foobar2000's ABX file, and a bit perfect CD rip encoded as WAV, FLAC, mp3 etc.). There is just no difference between WAV & FLAC when FLAC has been decoded, they are identical files.
The differences between 320kbps and lossless files are also slight, a lot slighter blind.
Del monaco
Del Monaco
Just on the off chance.I use Picoreplayer and wondered if I could add ripping by using a usb drive and some software?
harmonica98
pfm Member
I just use EAC via Wine. It works fine without issue.
Thanks - for some reason I seldom think of doing this!
Thanks also to Mansr - I'll try to remember to check that whichever tool I like the user interface of uses CDparanoia as the backend.
mansr
Objectionist
They pretty much all do. Nobody wants to write that kind of code.
Darth Vader
From the Dark Side
Just seen this. I run Linux Mint as my main O/S and have both dbpoweramp and foobar2000 running under WINE. Make sure that you download WINE from here https://www.winehq.org/ as the one that software manager downloads is rubbish in fact many apps downloaded with this are poor versions.
I also play many old games from the days of Win95.........
Cheers,
DV
Rico
Bloody Colonials
I like your logic. Though I must point out, even if we baseline and establish that the data is the same, it's still possible for them to be audibly different during playback.
For example, I successfully and consistently blind picked an original retail CD and two different copies of the same disk (verified) on CD-R many years ago, CDS2/52/3x500 active DBLs. Why was that - the data was the same.
mansr
Objectionist
If we take a WAV file and convert it to FLAC, then back to WAV again, will the two WAV files sound different?
Maybe the original CD had preemphasis and the ripping lost this flag, with or without applying deemphasis.
vince rocker
pfm Member
Was there any difference in the playback chain, Rico? Could the CD player or DAC handle WAV and FLAC differently?
It occurred to me after my earlier post that it is theoretically possible for the conversion to FLAC to add or remove something, leading to a different sound, which is then put back or removed in the conversion back to WAV. However, against this is that the FLAC conversion software is open source and any such dodginess would have been discovered a long time ago.
All this was a big debate in Grateful Dead trading circles years ago, there was (still is) an insistence on bit perfect CD copies. It seemed a bit esoteric to me as we were often trading music recorded in less than ideal conditions, on tapes stored in someone's garage for years, then through several generations of cassette copies. The source material was hardly perfect sound - though great music of course!
mansr
Objectionist
What does that even mean? The sample values coming out of the decoder are exactly the same as what went into then encoder. When you play a FLAC file, it is decoded and the samples sent to the DAC, exactly the same samples as when playing the WAV file.
vince rocker
pfm Member
Yes I agree that a DAC should treat WAV and FLAC the same. What I floated above, entirely theoretically, is that the encoding to FLAC could make a change in the content of the file, more than simply compression. But this doesn't happen, a cleverer person than me can go look at the code and verify this.
mansr
Objectionist
There is no need to look at the code. It's enough to verify that an encode/decode sequence doesn't change the audio data. If not, there is nowhere for a change in sound to hide.
Darth (sorry, am I being too informal there?), I confess I am currently re-acquainting myself with Diablo2, under WINE, using Mint - not quite Win95, but almost!
But, to be fair, this wouldn’t guarantee that your replay chain correctly implemented FLAC decoding.
mansr
Objectionist
True, but it's also easy to check.
MotelBlues
pfm Member
Am I correct in thinking you have an ND5XS? (I have one too.) IIRC Naim recommend using WAV over FLAC because it reduces the computational load on the streamer. I have set my UPNP software to transcode my ALAC files to WAV on this basis. Just because I can’t hear the difference doesn’t mean there isn’t one.
Lots of discussion about this sort of thing on the Naim forum, for example https://community.naimaudio.com/t/is-there-a-native-stream-format-for-the-nds/826/13 .