notevenclose
pfm Member
Well, here we are on the first day of a new decade, and you certainly wouldn't catch me spending over £2k on a CD player.
Regrettably, the one I'd really like is over £5k.
Bugger.
CD Players, worth spending over £2,000?
- Thread starter Peter McDermott
- Start date
Well, here we are on the first day of a new decade, and you certainly wouldn't catch me spending over £2k on a CD player.
Regrettably, the one I'd really like is over £5k.
Bugger.
Dowser
Learning to bodge again..
I buy them faulty and fix them - think my Naim CDI cost £1800 when new...a very long time ago...cost me £250 once I’d bought a new laser for it. I’ve tried, and own, a lot of other CD players, but still prefer the CDI (admittedly modded now).I even. Ought a second one 
there’s quite a bit of technical in accuracy being mentioned here - even my CDI (based on Philips chipset) reads data off the disc into a memory buffer chip, the speed of the spin motor is controlled to keep the buffer about full. Although it doesn’t go back a re-read on errors but interpolates.
The quad TDA1541 Stan Curtis Cambridge Audio players had an error led on front panel.
oh, and in 2012 I contacted Naim because I broke one of the springs suspending the PCB and mech off the chassis (I transported it from Ireland to Switzerland in the back of my car...without correct transport lock bolts....). They sent me two free of charge except for postage. Stunning they still keep what spares they have, and sell them to their customers
there’s quite a bit of technical in accuracy being mentioned here - even my CDI (based on Philips chipset) reads data off the disc into a memory buffer chip, the speed of the spin motor is controlled to keep the buffer about full. Although it doesn’t go back a re-read on errors but interpolates.
The quad TDA1541 Stan Curtis Cambridge Audio players had an error led on front panel.
oh, and in 2012 I contacted Naim because I broke one of the springs suspending the PCB and mech off the chassis (I transported it from Ireland to Switzerland in the back of my car...without correct transport lock bolts....). They sent me two free of charge except for postage. Stunning they still keep what spares they have, and sell them to their customers
Chris81
pfm Member
Strange, I use a PC and a modern Sugden DAC-4 and don't have any timing issues and also no missing flow, quite the opposite.
This does not compute but my new years resolution is not to argue when nobody will change their mind anyway.
linnfomaniac83
I bet you can’t wheelie a unicycle!
I’ve looked at the Rega ISIS a few times but I can’t bring myself to spend that much on a CDP now, I have my Linn Ikemi and I’ll stick with that, I’ve not heard much between it and an ISIS that I’d rather have and there’s nothing near £2k new that can beat it IMHO (which is why they’re commanding (£800-£1000 used).
notevenclose
pfm Member
Pretty much how I hear it. It's subtle, but it's there, and once noted, you can't 'unhear' it.
In actually fact, my experience was that it was with 'hi-res' files that I first became aware of it.
I'm not so sure it's specifically an issue with jitter as such, I tend to think it's more an issue of 'noise' or 'hash' and tends to be noticeable only when it's removed or substantially reduced.
John Darko did a rather good video a year or so back when he discovered CD players, which he'd not listened to for years, actually sounded better than virtually all of the streamers he normally used.
It's something I've heard many times and once you realize what is happening you can pick up on it quite quickly.
linnfomaniac83
I bet you can’t wheelie a unicycle!
I’ve heard it with separate streamers and DACs, the Linn DS players just flow, I’ve been a happy user for around 12 years now (since about the time I joined this forum actually)... still like to spin CDs sometimes though!
sonddek
Trade: SUPATRAC
This has been hacked out a thousand times, but I think a decent DAC with an adequate buffer using its own clock does not introduce jitter, and I don't hear the reported shortcomings on mine. It's good to know that the source data is not the product of potentially lossy error recovery.
This said, you can probably put together a server/DAC source that sucks, just as you can build a CD player that sucks. But assuming you rip right, I can see no means by which a CD transport could be a better source than a file server. It's just data and if it has error recovery built in to the encoding, you may as well use it.
This said, you can probably put together a server/DAC source that sucks, just as you can build a CD player that sucks. But assuming you rip right, I can see no means by which a CD transport could be a better source than a file server. It's just data and if it has error recovery built in to the encoding, you may as well use it.
linnfomaniac83
I bet you can’t wheelie a unicycle!
I’ve used separate streamers and DACs, Aiport Express, Sonos, custom built computer etc, running into various DACs with various results, some pretty excellent, some absolutely dire... an Apple TV into a Numerik (via a toslink to coax converter) has been a pretty excellent solution in various systems over the years... all overshadowed by a Linn Ikemi CDP... but the Ikemi doesn’t overshadow a DS, those sound awesome... any reported issue with sound quality from streamed music, assuming you’re playing lossless files, has to be to do with the streamer or the DAC and not streaming or music stored on a NAS, or indeed from a streaming service like Qobuz... I’ve had jaw dropping sound from Qobuz.
Sonci
pfm Member
I agree, but you can also get back to your cd player hidden in some part of the house, and use it for some days or a week, and decide by yourself, how hard is that?
I think is hard to build a very bad cd player. I don't know the reasons but even entry level cd player can make music.
I have a dozen of cd players and some of them strictly speaking can be classified as poor sounding, for example a Technics with MASH dacs sounds harsh and maybe thin, but the truth is that when it plays you want to let it play, it makes rhythm, music is in focus, and you can listen for hours even though the highs are horrendous.
I've used pc audio for years, first with pro soundcards and then with dacs, and its a thousand times more convenient than using cds, but sound quality still is not as good, of course IMO..
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Del monaco
Del Monaco
Dacs have been able to reduce jitter to negligent levels for a number of years. All of my renderers have different sound signatures. My Clearaudio vinyl solution has a wide soundstage with excellent speed and midrange, my Rotel 965BX has a wide and deep soundstage with a lovely burnished detailed midrange and my Pi/Sabre solution has an airy transparency and immediacy that is often beguiling. None have problems with timing. They all have their attributes and I don’t single one out over the other. I just adjust and enjoy what they produce.
It really comes down to whether or not you believe all digital sounds the same or not. My experience is...not. Even when theoretically it should.
linnfomaniac83
I bet you can’t wheelie a unicycle!
I’m a sound engineer and I know full well that they don’t, I don’t buy into audiophile foo, but the notion that all DACs and digital sources sound the same is just BS, some people wedge “well designed” or “properly designed” in there, but that must mean that the vast majority of stuff out there, even massively popular stuff that people love, is not well/properly designed. The reality is, that almost nothing is perfect, but rather the best compromise the designer could come up with given the budget they had to work with, and factoring in what is most important to him/her.
Digital comes in different flavours, just like analog, and you pick what you like... it’s funny that many of those that claim certain products are totally transparent, are the same people who move said product on when a new flavour of the month “totally transparent” product comes along. I’m not pointing the finger at anyone in particular here, it’s something I’ve noticed across the industry... meanwhile, I’m listening to a 20 year old CDP right now, it was absolutely epic when it was new, and it still is now.
Del monaco
Del Monaco
I love my Rotel the same way.
I don’t believe that all Dacs sound the same. I used to have an MF M1 Dac. Very nice in my system. It differed in the way it revealed a little more detail and articulacy in the bass. It may have been the result of the choke regulation power supply. Who knows?
I do however believe that differences are slight and never night and day. As I try more Dacs there are slight differences, whether they be based on Wolfson Burr Brown or Sabre. All have slight differences in measurements but whether one can hear these differences is debatable. I don’t really want to spend time squinting my eyes and sharpening my ears for what might be a change, or not. Life’s too short.
One thing is for sure. The Maggies have added the transparency I yearned for. I’d probably focus more on speakers than Dacs to be honest.
Curtis
pfm Member
How does your internal dac in the yammy compare to your dacmagic Del?
Del monaco
Del Monaco
Hi Curtis,
I think they are quite similar with maybe a touch more weight in the bass I think. I have another USB Sabre Dac that I have attached to my screened up Pi and have been testing this. A little more weight perhaps but difficult to tell really. Just messing with a project really. Enjoyable all the same.
Sorry, but I think you changed the argument.
I don't think many were/are arguing all DACs sound the same. The argument is if I play a CD into a DAC (via transport or digital out), it won't sound different if I rip the CD to a lossless format (e.g. FLAC) and play it through the same DAC via a streamer or computer. Same bits go in, same signal comes out (or better if the ripping software ensured bit perfect ripping).
Of course different DACs can sound different from each other, even being fed the same stream. But people are insisting that a CD player will playing a CD will always have a leg up over a DAC playing a lossless stream of the same CD. Because timing? Jitter? Synergy?
linnfomaniac83
I bet you can’t wheelie a unicycle!
Read again, I said DACs and digital sources. A digital source being anything from a PC, to a streamer to a CD transport, delivering a PCM signal to a DAC.
My argument is that there are good and bad examples of both CD transports and streaming transports, you can’t just compare one CD transport to one streamer and conclude that one method of storing/replaying a digital file is better than the other, it just isn’t that black and white.