Car Tuning Boxes

[Tony Lockhart]

It depends how close to the edge some of the components are in endurance terms, a 10% peak force change and related excitation will have an effect on the fatigue calcs for the engine and ancillaries. All engines are designed around a defined performance limit, and given weight targets I would be very surprised if there weren't components where design life was just sufficient at design rating and hence reduced when running above that.

Thats all just fluff to me. How many people have suffered crank/rod/head gasket failure after fitting a tuning box/remap? If you fit one to a 200k mile old car that has missed the odd service, maybe it’s to be expected. Most engines are pretty tough now. A well looked after standard engine will easily see 300k miles.

 

[dweezil]

Just going through the process with a remapper at the moment; loads of time spent trying to get the original file out and now they say the device needs a software upgrade!

Pity they didn't realise that before sending it out; if it works it will be great but i'm beginning to lose confidence in the product (Alientech Powergate 3+)

 

[Vinny]

Looks like another cable thread here...…………..

 

[gingermrkettle]

As I said before, every element of a powertrain and engine as installed has a design life at rated performance which comes straight from the material properties and design, so it is not just about crank, rods and gaskets. This comes straight from the standard basic material engineering like this.

This is literally MrsKettle's day job, in case you were wondering. There is more underlying engineering for stuff like torsional vibration if you are interested?

 

[Tony Lockhart]

As I said before, every element of a powertrain and engine as installed has a design life at rated performance which comes straight from the material properties and design, so it is not just about crank, rods and gaskets. This comes straight from the standard basic material engineering like this.

This is literally MrsKettle's day job, in case you were wondering. There is more underlying engineering for stuff like torsional vibration if you are interested?

That’s all very well, but if the engine is able to outlive the rest of the car, who cares? A standard engine that’s driven flat out at every opportunity will fail early. But who here does that???

 

[Seeker_UK]

As I said before, every element of a powertrain and engine as installed has a design life at rated performance which comes straight from the material properties and design, so it is not just about crank, rods and gaskets. This comes straight from the standard basic material engineering like this.

This is literally MrsKettle's day job, in case you were wondering. There is more underlying engineering for stuff like torsional vibration if you are interested?

All true but a lot of manufacturers use the same engine in a lot of models and just remap to adjust the power outputs. An MB W205 C220d and C250d have exactly the same engine ditto BMW N47 *18d and *20d so in many cases, you can get a higher power output by doing nothing more than remap to 'standard' power so hardly likely to cause catastrophic failure during a 'standard' working life.

 

[gingermrkettle]

All true but a lot of manufacturers use the same engine in a lot of models and just remap to adjust the power outputs. An MB W205 C220d and C250d have exactly the same engine ditto BMW N47 *18d and *20d so in many cases, you can get a higher power output by doing nothing more than remap to 'standard' power so hardly likely to cause catastrophic failure during a 'standard' working life.

Are you sure they are exactly the same, with no cost saving on the lower output versions on stuff like bearings and ancillaries?

 

[Tony Lockhart]

Are you sure they are exactly the same, with no cost saving on the lower output versions on stuff like bearings and ancillaries?

I don’t know about the W205, but my W204 CDi had various changes, with my 250 always having a twin turbo, but the 220 starting with a single turbo and then... maybe, nobody seems sure, getting the twin turbo at some point.
One way to tell is to see what the tuning companies reckon the engine will remap to. If the ‘lower’ engine doesn’t remap to the same power, it’s not the same hardware.

 

[Seeker_UK]

Are you sure they are exactly the same, with no cost saving on the lower output versions on stuff like bearings and ancillaries?

I'd need to check but I would imagine economies of scale make it cheaper to make one engine than two with one with 'cheaper' internals.

I suspect it's more likely with higher output engines such as the difference betweeen single and bi-turbo 3 litres.

 

[Snufkin]

I'd need to check but I would imagine economies of scale make it cheaper to make one engine than two with one with 'cheaper' internals.

I suspect it's more likely with higher output engines such as the difference betweeen single and bi-turbo 3 litres.

I don't know about modern engines but the formidable VW cast iron 1900cc Diesel was offered in various guises from 60 BHP up to 130 BHP and the cooking varieties definitely had lesser rated components in the reciprocating parts of the engine.

 

[Tony Lockhart]

I don't know about modern engines but the formidable VW cast iron 1900cc Diesel was offered in various guises from 60 BHP up to 130 BHP and the cooking varieties definitely had lesser rated components in the reciprocating parts of the engine.

The top one was 150bhp!

It had a titanium compressor wheel and different induction. Remapped to 190bhp ish and 300ft.lb. The torque was limited by the clutch. The 100bhp version, from memory, only remapped to 130bhp.

 

[Rana]

It's easy enough these days to release performance......but there are extremely good reasons why the performance limits are set where they are, and, not including the obvious engine and material durability mentioned above, they include (in no particular order):

1. Marketing, insurance and taxation reasons
2. Local emissions requirements and operational performance of exhaust aftertreatment systems - this is the biggie - all of those aftermarket mods will make the car illegal from a homologation viewpoint, this is guaranteed unless the supplier has conducted emissions testing and 150,000km validation on all variants they are supplying the mods for
3. Drivetrain (flywheel to road wheel) durability limits (an example being dual mass flywheel limits) including harmonic resonance limits, there may be torsional vibration issues at speed/load conditions that the OEM will want to avoid
4. Fuel octane (antiknock) and anti-LSPI calibration reasons for gasoline engines
5. Soot loading into the lubricant and onto the exhaust particulate filter - especially for diesels if the regeneration strategy is not adjusted compared to new calibration parameters. Unless the oil is changed more frequently, enhanced soot loading will create more wear for diesels and potential early failure for gasoline direct injection engines fitted with timing chains and wet belts. Oil change algorithms won't pick this factor up.

I like to think I had one of the first remapped naturally aspirated road cars in the UK (but I'm probably wrong) during my Austin-Rover days. I had access to a Lucas prototype calibration ignition ECU (piggy backed it onto the standard ECU using duck tape) which I had reflashed to my own spark advance map by the Rover EMS team at Warwick University. I used connect it when I was flush enough to buy 4 star fuel. The engine was from a Rover 820 M16 modified with a high compression cylinder head prepared by colleagues at Tickford who we used as an additional test resource and I also fitted it high flow injectors with a Lucas programmable fuel ECU. The engine installation work was done before I bought it, by a colleague, into a 1986 MG Maestro of all things - and only weighed about 980kg -quick enough to see a prototype Sprintex supercharged K16 Rover 200 off, and could keep up with an 1980's BMW 535i in my boy-racer days....."bor" of this forum would remember it. I sold it on to another colleague and it ended life as a track car with over 150k miles on it - but that was because it was always run on the best quality lubricant which was changed frequently.

 

[Ginger]

That’s all very well, but if the engine is able to outlive the rest of the car, who cares? A standard engine that’s driven flat out at every opportunity will fail early. But who here does that???

I’m making a valiant effort ...

 

[gingermrkettle]

I don't know about modern engines but the formidable VW cast iron 1900cc Diesel was offered in various guises from 60 BHP up to 130 BHP and the cooking varieties definitely had lesser rated components in the reciprocating parts of the engine.

VW diesels are an interesting example of course. Dieselgate was due to them running higher cylinder temperatures for thermal efficiency, however NO2 production increases at those temperatures. Be interesting to see those emissions figures from tuned engines, even if the valves etc. can handle the thermals.

 

[doctorf]

With regards to remapping vs. tuning boxes - with the latter it's easier to return the car to standard. I don't know if this applies to all types of them, but with my one you can buy a different plug-in module to suit different vehicles. In the end, the proof of the pudding, etc., and the one I've bought works far better than I could have anticipated. BHP's apparently upped from 250-odd to over 300, torque's similarly increased, although I've no way of proving this.

If it was unpleasant to fit, I presume you leave it on when you take the car for a service or if it breaks down.
Will Porsche argue if you try a warranty claim for anything they can blame on the tuning box?

 

[Suffolk Tony]

If it was unpleasant to fit, I presume you leave it on when you take the car for a service or if it breaks down.
Will Porsche argue if you try a warranty claim for anything they can blame on the tuning box?

It's not warrantied through Porsche, and you can remove the tuning module, fit a bypass in its place, and just leave the cables in situ. Besides, once you know how it all fits it's relatively easy and quick to remove it all.

 

[matt j]

You need to be careful with warranty stuff because even if you remove it they can still check whether something has been fitted.

 

[Tony Lockhart]

You need to be careful with warranty stuff because even if you remove it they can still check whether something has been fitted.

Thats only a real concern with a new or nearly new car that was purchased from a Porsche Approved dealer.

 

[matt j]

Thats only a real concern with a new or nearly new car that was purchased from a Porsche Approved dealer.

Yeah I didn't know how old Tony's was, I assumed it was new being on PFM

 

[doctorf]

That’s what I liked about the Bluefin from Superchips. You can add or remove the mapping as often as you like. A 10 minute job for either and no wires anywhere.