Car remapping

[Sue Pertwee-Tyr]

I think that ship has sailed I'm afraid. I think the market acceptance for a non-turbo engine would be too low to make a convincing business case.

Especially as 'the market' in this case was stated to be 'just for me'.

Noting the broader shift to electrification, I'd be surprised if much development of new IC engines is happening anywhere, is it? I imagine most manufacturers with a currently viable range of engines will be looking to extend their useful life to beyond 2030 rather than designing the generation of engines that would normally be replacing them.

 

[Seeker_UK]

I think that ship has sailed I'm afraid. I think the market acceptance for a non-turbo engine would be too low to make a convincing business case.

Mazda don't use turbos in a lot of their petrol models and they shift a lot of cars.

 

[PaulMB]

I think that ship has sailed I'm afraid. I think the market acceptance for a non-turbo engine would be too low to make a convincing business case.

I wonder, though...as Gez points out, Porsche does it.
Turbo has been compulsorily imposed, supposedly for fuel economy, but also so they can make smaller and cheaper engines. Since I can buy a 500 HP, 2500 kilo turbo beast that uses 12 litres of petrol for 100 km, why can't I buy a 200 HP 1,500 kilo non-turbo car that only uses 9 liters per 100 km? (like my old 528i).

 

[Sue Pertwee-Tyr]

Aren't all current Porsche models now turbos in one form or another though?

 

[bor]

Noting the broader shift to electrification, I'd be surprised if much development of new IC engines is happening anywhere, is it? I imagine most manufacturers with a currently viable range of engines will be looking to extend their useful life to beyond 2030 rather than designing the generation of engines that would normally be replacing them.

It depends on who you ask and when you ask.

There will still be some tweeks to made, but it's difficult to see many mainstream volume manufacturers putting too much money into petrol engine development from now on.

You still can't obviously be 100% sure that the move will be to EVs instead of synthetic fuels or hydrogen or something else, but it does have the feel of sunset for petrol engine development.

 

[stevec67]

EURO 7 is about to be introduced, but we don't see too many problems meeting this, at least in our area. Diesel might be a lot harder due to their ongoing sensitivity to DPF clogging.

For petrol engines we will be making some tweaks, but that should not have any negative effects on the base components reaching 300k.

Might be harder for the fuel injectors for example.

The effect on fuel injectors is accepted, but I don't regard that as "major overhaul" because assuming they aren't irretrievably stuck in the head they can be easily replaced. If you made them a 100k mile service item it's not "major overhaul".

 

[Tony Lockhart]

Aren't all current Porsche models now turbos in one form or another though?

No. For example, the 911 GT3 RS is naturally aspirated.

 

[stevec67]

I wonder, though...as Gez points out, Porsche does it.
Turbo has been compulsorily imposed, supposedly for fuel economy, but also so they can make smaller and cheaper engines. Since I can buy a 500 HP, 2500 kilo turbo beast that uses 12 litres of petrol for 100 km, why can't I buy a 200 HP 1,500 kilo non-turbo car that only uses 9 liters per 100 km? (like my old 528i).

Because The Market buys different cars to you. I've recently noticed that Aldi have detuned theit cheap stubby lager to meet a price point. Again. Years ago it was 4.5% ABV, then 4.2 iirc, then 4, and the latest stuff is 3.4. The price is unchanged, but clearly they are deliberately making it thinner to attract lower manufacturing costs and critically duty. I would happily pay more for 4.5%, but The Market wants cheap lager, so they get the thin stuff. And so do I. Like it or not.

 

[paul rich]

Smells like Grade A BS.

No seriously, I remember it well. I've no vested interest here, just an interest in most things automotive. I'm afraid without the reference you'll just have to trust me or not

 

[paul rich]

Because The Market buys different cars to you. I've recently noticed that Aldi have detuned theit cheap stubby lager to meet a price point. Again. Years ago it was 4.5% ABV, then 4.2 iirc, then 4, and the latest stuff is 3.4. The price is unchanged, but clearly they are deliberately making it thinner to attract lower manufacturing costs and critically duty. I would happily pay more for 4.5%, but The Market wants cheap lager, so they get the thin stuff. And so do I. Like it or not.

LOL, its must be to appeal to the Snowflakes, they don't anything too challenging

 

[Woodface]

BMW are pretty clever in their modular approach, allows them to offer after sales remote upgrades.

 

[stevec67]

No seriously, I remember it well. I've no vested interest here, just an interest in most things automotive. I'm afraid without the reference you'll just have to trust me or not

I don't doubt what you say, what is BS is anyone saying "you can't make an engine that lasts X thousand miles/hours and that meets emissions". Now if he had said "that lasts X thousand miles, meets emissions, has a specific power of Y as expected by the target market and costs less than Z" then I would have heartily agreed.
There are after all any number of absolutely enormous engines powering ships and delivering thousands of BHP for thousands upon thousands of hours without incident. I'm sure that they could be made to meet emissions. But you don't want to be paying the cost.

 

[PaulMB]

Because The Market buys different cars to you. I've recently noticed that Aldi have detuned theit cheap stubby lager to meet a price point. Again. Years ago it was 4.5% ABV, then 4.2 iirc, then 4, and the latest stuff is 3.4. The price is unchanged, but clearly they are deliberately making it thinner to attract lower manufacturing costs and critically duty. I would happily pay more for 4.5%, but The Market wants cheap lager, so they get the thin stuff. And so do I. Like it or not.

But is this "the Market," i.e you with your lager and me with my NA straight 6, or is it what Aldi and BMW impose for their own ends?

 

[stevec67]

But is this "the Market," i.e you with your lager and me with my NA straight 6, or is it what Aldi and BMW impose for their own ends?

I think they are driven as much as drivers. Of course, they are making a living out of it, but they can't do that without giving most of the people most of what they want most of the time. Otherwise they are dead.
It's like the food industry, where I work. We are constantly accused of selling sugary addictive food to lure in consumers and make them fat. I wish that we were that clever. What we really are is reacting to what people want to pay for. Here in the UK that is ever cheaper food, ever more convenient, ever more tasty. Because if we don't do it someone else will. I could, as a food manufacturer, produce something worthy and healthy, more so than other products, but people have to want to eat it, they have to want to buy it, they have to want to pay for it. If it's not tasty and gratifying, they won't. So we are stuck between a rock and a hard place. If I offer 2 versions of a meat pie, one that is healthy but tastes a bit boring because it's low in salt, fat, etc, and another that's tasty as hell but full of fat and salt, guess which one sells better. That's not my fault, that's the consumer choosing. The consumer should actually be making their own food from fresh ingredients, but good luck with that one. Bag of carrots, 60p. Really healthy, nobody wants to buy them. But a pie, £1? Go on then.

 

[AnilS]

Already done, it's called the N52. 3L straight six with either 218 or 265ps (in the UK at least). The E8x 1 series BMWs have them (specifically the 125i coupe & 130i hatch).

True.

My Z4 has this engine (265) and it is epic.

Instant response, no turbo lag and the sound is sensational.

 

[Puggie]

I think a good few manufacturers are looking at hydrogen as a means to retain internal combustion, rather than going to electric.

The main issues are fuelling infrastructure and the cost of producing hydrogen.

 

[Tony Lockhart]

I think a good few manufacturers are looking at hydrogen as a means to retain internal combustion, rather than going to electric.

The main issues are fuelling infrastructure and the cost of producing hydrogen.

And storing it (it likes leaking)

 

[Puggie]

And storing it (it likes leaking)

Erm yes, I’m working on a H2 fuel cell prototype vehicle at work currently and keeping hydrogen in bottles and lines is a ball ache. Burning it is massively inefficient compared to fuel cells.

 

[Pravda]

As an old fart, I'm not sure what the rush is

 

[Suffolk Tony]

True.

My Z4 has this engine (265) and it is epic.

Instant response, no turbo lag and the sound is sensational.

I realise I've owned five cars with various forms of the BMW straight-six engine. First was my 525tds Touring which did 130k miles over three years. A big gap before the Z4 (a great car), then an X5 diesel, followed by a 540i Touring and finally a 340i saloon. No problems with any of them, engines or cars. That straight six is a real peach, and in my gentle hands was remarkably good on fuel.