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Can anyone actually hear differences between the main stream codes over Bluetooth ???

LPSpinner

pfm Member
Hi All,

Who here has had any firsthand experience comparing Bluetooth Codecs???

I suppose this belongs in the headphones section as Bluetooth mainly impacts mobile headphone users.

For various reasons I have been exploring the Use of Bluetooth connectivity in an Audio context. I know it is not a perfect solution but we as consumers of high-quality music would be wise not to ignore it else it be at our own peril, if not for all our listening but at least our mobile, “on the go” listening habits. I also happen to have a collection of Bluetooth audio receivers. This allows me to connect to my home gear and stream music from a Phone or Tablet. FM reception is very poor in this area so steaming my favourite FM stations is the only option. Also, I now get to listen to BBC3 In Australia, streamed all the way from the UK.

In my current setup I have made some preliminary comparisons with SBC (the default codec) AAC and aptX over a Bluetooth connection. A quick look online would suggest that AAC should be better than SBC, however under Bluetooth AAC has been cobbled at 256kbps (320kbps over a wired connection is its absolute maximum bit rate) where SBC is 328kbps with a strong signal. While AAC is theoretically a better codec, SINAD measurement with AAC codecs show a wide side band either side of the test signal that is quite visible above the noise floor. The aptX and aptXLL codec offers 352 kbps but this codec still displays the wide side band either side of the test signal. On the positive side, the aptX codec does demonstrate lower Audio Latency while aptxLL offers even better Latency, typically around 40ms rather than 200-300ms for SBC.

To my ears I honestly cannot tell the sonic difference between SBC, AAC, and aptX with the exception of aptXLL and this was only the low latency that gave it the advantage, I could not discern any real audio quality difference.

Sony has introduced LDAC that promises higher bit rates up to 990kbps but at the moment this codec is propriety to Sony and its usage amongst non-Sony hardware is very limited, probably due heavy licensing fees and complex licensing agreements. Therefore; at the moment for most applications LDAC is not yet an option on generally available hardware. LDAC also seems very sensitive to Bluetooth signal quality. Some reviewers have commented that the headphones will drop back to SBC as soon as the phone goes into the user’s back pocket. Interestingly though; LDAC’s audio latency is up around 900ms.

I suppose my conclusion is, with the exception of LDAC, that there is no real improvement of overall sound quality. On face value AAC appears to offer better quality compression for a given bitrate but falls short on only offering 256kbps over a Bluetooth connection, it also displays higher levels of IM distortion. aptX gives us back our bitrate but also displays IM artifacts. LDAC offers better sound quality but is not widely supported and soon drops back to lower bit-rates (or even defaults back to SBC) when the connection signal becomes mildly compromised.

I would be interested to hear any comments or experiences.


LPSpinner
 
I experimented with using various blue tooth receivers via various devices but ultimately reverted to local Wi-Fi using an mconnect app for every device - including propriety streamers such as Naim etc
 
By far and away the limitation is Bluetooth - it was never intended for anything but basic data transfer and nothing anyone can do will alter that. Neither can that limitation be designed-out.
 
Additionally I noticed when yawing Naim tidal connect etc to enjoy the full platform the quality goes down from master to Hifi - hence running through the app
 
Hi All,

Who here has had any firsthand experience comparing Bluetooth Codecs???

I suppose my conclusion is, with the exception of LDAC, that there is no real improvement of overall sound quality. On face value AAC appears to offer better quality compression for a given bitrate but falls short on only offering 256kbps over a Bluetooth connection, it also displays higher levels of IM distortion. aptX gives us back our bitrate but also displays IM artifacts. LDAC offers better sound quality but is not widely supported and soon drops back to lower bit-rates (or even defaults back to SBC) when the connection signal becomes mildly compromised.

I would be interested to hear any comments or experiences.

LPSpinner

I use an Avantree Oasis Plus occasionally to stream sound from my TV to a pair of Even headphones or MA IEMs - it supports a range of BT codecs you mention and the HD setting is pretty damn good, the best I have tried. The price is also very reasonable for what it does (£60) and the in/out flexibility impressive. The range is exceptional, meaning I can walk around the entire house (50s semi) and rarely encounter dropouts. BT has moved on a lot since its original inception and is IME no longer a technology solely for keyboards and mice (still quite crap on my Mac Mini though ... a 2014 model so perhaps improved on the M1 iteration.)

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07BQYYDNJ/?tag=pinkfishmedia-21

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My Quad Vena (original) also has a BT AptX receiver but I rarely use it.
I do have a tiny TROND BT send/receive device which means I can, if I wish, use wired HPs. Also a very handy thing with great sound quality that I have used in the garden with a sender based in the shed.

BT beats any Wifi based streaming in our house without using boosters (a must for patchy WiFi coverage in our case) but I have yet to exploit it to the full.
 
This site contains affiliate links for which pink fish media may be compensated.
...I do have a tiny TROND BT send/receive device which means I can, if I wish, use wired HPs. Also a very handy thing with great sound quality that I have used in the garden with a sender based in the shed...

Hi Miktec,

One of my Bluetooth adaptors is a Digitech AA2112. This has been rebadged by several companies, Including TROND. The unit does sound good for the price and it includes a genuine QUALCOM CSR 8670 chipset with support for SBC aptX & low latency, aptX with AAC on receive as well. The Toslink for both inputs and outputs mean I can also plug it into a DAC and there for bypassing the internal “on Chip” DAC giving me a few possibilities. The internal battery is also quite nice when going mobile.

AA2112-bluetooth-5-0-audio-transmitter-and-receiver-with-opticalImageMain-300.jpg
AA2112-bluetooth-5-0-audio-transmitter-and-receiver-with-opticalgallery2-300.jpg


I do like the look of the Avantree unit, again, the Toslink connectors provides possibilities. I have seen this unit re-branded by several people so I might keep an eye open for an over the counter sale opportunity.

...BT has moved on a lot since its original inception and is IME no longer a technology solely for keyboards and mice...

This is my experience as well and many media commentators seem to agree, Ultimately, with our portable devices, we will be forced to use Bluetooth anyway so I feel we need to get our heads around it rather than ignoring it. Active engagement might drive the market to create better solutions, That’s the hope anyway.

LPSpinner.
 
This site gives some interesting measurements: https://addictedtoaudio.com.au/blog...-the-bluetooth-codecs-which-performs-the-best

It ties up with my own findings that it's IMD that seems to be the issue rather than THD. Also different device's implementations make consistent measurements hard.

Subjectively I sometimes wonder if aptX sounds better than aptX HD, but none of my devices allow Codec selection always defaulting to 'best'.

I can imagine that if packets are being lost then as aptX is less demanding than HD 'pure' aptX may sound better than 'degraded' HD. I assume this is what Qualcomm are trying to address with aptX adaptive.
 
This site gives some interesting measurements: https://addictedtoaudio.com.au/blog...-the-bluetooth-codecs-which-performs-the-best

It ties up with my own findings that it's IMD that seems to be the issue rather than THD. Also different device's implementations make consistent measurements hard. ....

Hi, yes I have read this article on the addicted to audio web site, interesting indeed. As you pointed out, it seems to be the case that the implementation of the codec is more important than the codec itself. I have a Pentium based iMac that I was using as for Bluetooth streaming. Apples ecosystem would naturally preference AAC over all else but if you install apples Xcode tool kit this opens up the "Force aptX" option in the "Audo Option" tab. This extra option lets the user force macOS to switch between SBC, AAC and aptX. This is how I was able to do a direct comparison leading me to the conclusion that, in this case, all three codecs do things a little differently but none offer any absolute advantage over the others.

My Lenovo Tablet (now used as my streaming server) does offer AAC as well as the default SBC but there is a known issue with AAC on android devices (My tablet runs Android 11) and to be honest I can't hear a difference on this setup either. My tablet has the MediaTek rather than the Snapdragon processor so aptX is not an option for me. The aptXLL codec offers Lower latency over standard aptX, good for movies and games but again, no real advantage for pure music listening.

I am interested in the FIIO BTA30 mentioned in the article linked above as it also does LDAC and as it has a big antenna fitted, this should minimise any signal strength & connection integrity issues which LDAC appears to be rather sensitive to when you try want to access the higher bitrates. I just need to get a tablet that will also connect with the LDAC codec.

LPSpinner
 
I like Bluetooth and use it a lot for both headphone and main system listening.

I've not noticed any difference between stream codes either.

Bluetooth receiver "quality" does seem to have a significant impact, though.

I started off with Chinese receivers, typically £40 or so, using their digital output into my usual DAC.
Then an AudioEngine B1 came along on ebay and I gave that a try out of curiosity as to what, if anything, the extra £ gave.

I was surprised to hear a significant and worthwhile improvement in sound quality.
I've had the same result with an iFi Blue receiver.
 
I think there's a lot of variations in quality of implementation. I have one receiver that sometimes measures good for IMD and sometimes bad depending on what mood it's in!
 
As the Bluetooth standards expand to include fancy new compression schemes, has the bandwidth of Bluetooth remained the same?
 
I accept that Bluetooth has it's limitations, and I suppose I could hear a difference between the various flavours if I was willing to make the effort, but tbh I'd rather enjoy the music than make the effort.
I agree.
I find Bluetooth to be a very enjoyable music carrier. I love it.
 
Like others have already said; as well as what I have read and experienced with regards to BT versions, is that beyond BT Ver 4.0 there has been no real gain in absolute audio performance. BT 5.X offers higher Data transfer rates but this seems to be aimed at allowing two devices to share a connection rather than a single device getting higher data transfer speeds. In particular, there has been no real gain in the area of higher bit rates for audio codecs. The real advantages gained largely focus on lower power, faster pairing and better duplexing between multiple devices.

As has already been mentioned, we are now at a stage where there are more gains to be had by taking the current BT technology and implementing with more care. In my house at the moment the preferred devices are actually BT V4.2 devices running SBC. These devices have been implemented and constructed with a little more attention and care rather than just taking the latest chip sets and throwing them in a box. To my ears, the difference is actually very minor.

Bluetooth has already become part of the music delivery system at my place and probably will be for some time. As I have posted before, FM radio is no longer an option at my current situation due to the location of my nearest FM transmitter for our national broadcaster. However, having a strong internet connection means that streaming is easy, reliable and convenient. A dedicated Tablet streaming from Wi-Fi and with a blue tooth connection to the amplifier is just too convenient not to use. The sound quality is actually better than any FM signal I have received when I was at my last location with only 12km to a 50kW transmitter and a posh receiver.

LPSPinner
 


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