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Calling RP10 owners

M

Mr Pig

^'- -'^
So.... what cartridge are you using and why?

I'm in the long process of trying to figure out what cartridge to put on it. And I'm not enjoying it. I'm terrified by the idea of spending a lot on a cartridge and not liking it. So far most of the carts I've tried I've not been satisfied with. Anyone who knows this deck will know how revealing it is. It's like a magnifying glass which both lets cartridges work at their best but also ruthlessly reveals where they come up short.

So far the carts I've tried are:

Ortofon 2M black
Audio Technica AT-OC9 MLII
Denon DL-103
Ortofon 540 MKII
Rega Carbon

Phono stages:

Meridian 101 on-board MM and MC stages
Cambridge 540P with upgraded PSU
Moon 110 LP
Moon 110 LP V2
Graham Slee Jazz Club
Rega Aria

I think that's it and so far my favorite is.... an old Linn K9 into the Aria! Yeah, you can laugh but it's pretty good. KInda suspect I can do better though eh?

The Black is pretty impressive for a MM but the music doesn't gel together well enough and the stylus is crazy fussy about alignment and record quality. The 540 is better in both respects but hasn't enough life about it. OC9 and Denon just sounded..wrong.

The RP10 has virtually no character of its own so, unlike an LP12, does not lend the proceedings any warmth or air. The cartridge has to get that stuff right and most it seems don't.

So what have you used?

Fang queue.
 
Mr Pig said:
So.... what cartridge are you using and why?

I'm in the long process of trying to figure out what cartridge to put on it. And I'm not enjoying it. I'm terrified by the idea of spending a lot on a cartridge and not liking it. So far most of the carts I've tried I've not been satisfied with. Anyone who knows this deck will know how revealing it is. It's like a magnifying glass which both lets cartridges work at their best but also ruthlessly reveals where they come up short.

So far the carts I've tried are:

Ortofon 2M black
Audio Technica AT-OC9 MLII
Denon DL-103
Ortofon 540 MKII
Rega Carbon

Phono stages:

Meridian 101 on-board MM and MC stages
Cambridge 540P with upgraded PSU
Moon 110 LP
Moon 110 LP V2
Graham Slee Jazz Club
Rega Aria

I think that's it and so far my favorite is.... an old Linn K9 into the Aria! Yeah, you can laugh but it's pretty good. KInda suspect I can do better though eh?

The Black is pretty impressive for a MM but the music doesn't gel together well enough and the stylus is crazy fussy about alignment and record quality. The 540 is better in both respects but hasn't enough life about it. OC9 and Denon just sounded..wrong.

The RP10 has virtually no character of its own so, unlike an LP12, does not lend the proceedings any warmth or air. The cartridge has to get that stuff right and most it seems don't.

So what have you used?

Fang queue.
Click to expand...
Timestep phono stage if your going high end. By the sounds of your post you need to go out there and audition.
 
I.D.C. said:
By the sounds of your post you need to go out there and audition.
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I've not done that in decades as I think it's a waste of time. You need to hear stuff in your own system for a week or two to really get an idea of what it does. Thankfully, I know my local dealer well enough that they just let me take stuff home but I need a half sensible shortlist.
 
Mr Pig said:
I've not done that in decades as I think it's a waste of time. You need to hear stuff in your own system for a week or two to really get an idea of what it does. Thankfully, I know my local dealer well enough that they just let me take stuff home but I need a half sensible shortlist.
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That's 100% correct the right thing to do so enjoy.
 
DimitryZ said:
Orto Jub on P9 and Nag MP300 on the P8
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The MP500 was on my list but what I read about it suggested it might be too warm and slow sounding. I know users will say 'it's not' but everyone has different subjective opinions of these things. One man's refined is another man's dull.

What is useful are comparisons with other bits of kit that you already know.
 
Hana SL - I think there‘s a cheaper one in the series, you can also get a high output version. Heard ML on P8 through Mcintosh built in Phonostage set at 100 ohms. Was sweet.
 
Mr Pig said:
The MP500 was on my list but what I read about it suggested it might be too warm and slow sounding. I know users will say 'it's not' but everyone has different subjective opinions of these things. One man's refined is another man's dull.
Click to expand...

Obviously a huge, huge amount of an MM cart’s balance is down to loading, so unless you can alter resistance, capacitance etc you are stuck with whatever match or mismatch your system throws up. That said I’ve owned the 2M Black, 540/II and currently a MP-500. To be honest I never really got on with the 2M Black, it was just too fiddly, incisive, analytical even though clearly very good. I’d file under ‘hi-fi’ even after I’d fiddled with the load a lot (I ended up with 39k and about 110pf total (stage and arm lead combined)). I actually far prefer its predecessor the 540/II and have retained that as a spare (I sold the Black).

The 540/II was just a bit more relaxed and easy than the Black, plus it seems to track rather better. It is a very good cartridge IMO, but still requires a quite specific loading, one I can’t achieve with my favoured valve preamp (I’ve used a variety of kit with these three carts). I do really rate this cart though, it does a lot of things very right when sympathetically loaded, tracks well, isn’t phased by inner groove distortion etc. It is one of the best MMs I’ve ever owned.

I replaced it with the Nagaoka MP-500 as it is just so much less picky about loading and capacitance and the Ortofon was never happy into my JC Verdier valve preamp, which I wanted to use as it just suits the system well otherwise. I don’t know whether it is the difference between moving magnet and moving iron (the Nag is the latter), but the MP-500 just doesn’t seem to care about load or capacitance. I spent a while comparing two phono boards for my (lightly modified) Quad 34, one the Quad default of 47k/220pF, which sounds hideous with the Ortofons, and one I’d modified for the Black with 33K/39pF. I could barely tell them apart with the Nag, plus it sounds great into the Verdier whereas the Ortofon emphasised the hi-hats and surface noise too much (i.e. the loading was clearly wrong).

Even allowing for the loading differences, the importance of which really can’t be over-emphasised with the Ortofons (they can sound dreadfully bright, thin and dry if wrong), I’d still say the Nagaoka was a warmer and easier sound, though no less informative. The top and upper-mid is astonishingly clear and well anchored, I suspect due to the boron cantilever being absolutely free of the resonance one finds in alloy pipes, but whatever it is it sails through anything without the slightest issue. It is a quieter cart than the Ortofons, IIRC about 1mV less, so you need to turn it up a bit when comparing, but it is a great cartridge and seems to slot into my system perfectly balance-wise. I’d certainly not describe it as ‘slow’, rhythm is very good IMO and as a whole I feel my system matches very well vinyl to CD (I have a very good DAC, so not an easy ask). Which is preferred depends entirely on the specific mastering. I’m certainly happy enough with the MP-500 that I have a spare stylus waiting for when it wears out!
 
Tony L said:
The top and upper-mid is astonishingly clear and well anchored, I suspect due to the boron cantilever being absolutely free of the resonance one finds in alloy pipes...
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Years ago I had an MP11 Boron which I liked but the stylus fell off the cantilever. Twice! Hadn't treated it roughly or anything, it just fell off. That really put me off boron cantilevers as I figured it wasn't a very easy material to glue a needle to.

I'm not adverse to another MM cart but the Aria can obviously deal with MC so I'm keen to look into those. The extra air seems to me to be exactly what the RP10 could use. To be honest, I don't think MC is inherently better than MM, they have different strengths. Just what suits the application the best.
 
In the dealers yesterday I mentioned that I was enjoying the K9. He suggested the new Audio Technica 700-series MM range as he reckons they're cut from the same cloth and great sounding.

Certainly an interesting range of carts. If you look at the top of the tree you have three effectively identical cartridges with different styluses. Not in itself unusual but all three are what would be considered good profiles and typically a manufacturer would choose one to top the range. But AT are offering all three!
 
Goldring Elite is one to consider and doesn't break the bank for a quality MC with Gyger S stylus.

I ran one on a P9 and really liked it. Quite Like the old Linn carts in character but cleaner at the top.
 
I started with a Lyra Delos on my RP10 which was sublime and by far the best sound I've ever had from vinyl.

Now ex girlfriend busted the cantaliver off the Lyra so I grabbed an Apheta 2 which is great but not as good as the Lyra.

The Hana is a good suggestion I've also been eyeing up Dynavector as they are said to work well on a Rega table. The Lyra Kleos SL is expensive but I bet it would be killer on this table.
 
I really liked the ZYX R100 on my RP6 and also the Benz Ace L
 
Robert said:
Quite Like the old Linn carts in character but cleaner at the top.
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It's a long time since I've played one. I've the K5, K9 and the K18 but the RP10 changes things dramatically. It lets carts perform as well as they can and the K9 is pretty smooth on it. I just stuck the K9 on because it was sitting there but it matches the deck very well.

I'm kinda luke warm on super-fi stylus profiles. I find them harder to get right and intolerant of less than perfect vinyl. Ok, you can get a bit more top end detail but I'm not sure it's worth what you loose.
 
Weirdness said:
I started with a Lyra Delos on my RP10 which was sublime and by far the best sound I've ever had from vinyl.
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Why didn't you just buy another Lyra? In what way is sound different from the Rega?

My local dealer fits Dynavectors to Rega decks by default. He says the Apheta 2 is the first Rega cart he's heard worth considering but the Dynas are still better.

The Hanas are a good price but I've heard mixed reports on them.
 
I think the Rega 10 is overrated and you should sell it for a ...........(fill in your turntable here).

You really are fools believing all the hype.
 
I think a Rega Exact would sound great on an RP10 especially into an Aria. Personally I've just had my thirteen year old Apheta rebuilt by Rega and I'm really liking it.
 
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