eternumviti
Insufficient privileges to reply.
I don't understand the question. The UK regulator approved Pfizer first. Pfizer is American, isn't it?
Brexit: give me a positive effect... XII
- Thread starter richardg
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I don't understand the question. The UK regulator approved Pfizer first. Pfizer is American, isn't it?
TheDecameron
Unicorns fart glitter.
Y
You understand the question well. Pfizer didn’t have the quantity to satisfy demand. Had the Russian and Chinese vaccines been able to, would you have supported their deployment?
i.j.russell
pfm Member
That's going to make it fun for the 300,000 Hong Kong citizens that we've offered a home to.
Tony L
Administrator
The Conservatives stole £bns of our tax revenue too. We shouldn’t consider it a total win as since leaving the EU the UK has become a thiefdom for a Bullingdon/oligarch elite. I’m very grateful for receiving my vaccine, but that is only one side of a remarkably ugly story of an entirely unaccountable government. The UK is now basically a gangster oligarchy.
Colin L
High-tech low-life
Gangster oligopoly indeed. Brexit, the 20 yr project funded by right wing dark money.
https://www.atlasnetwork.org/news/article/how-to-use-brexit-as-an-example-for-future-policy-changes
In 2016, the United Kingdom surprised the world by deciding to leave the European Union. Campaign victories like that don’t come out of nowhere. Behind the scenes, teams engage audiences, navigate policy discussions, work with the press, and debate difficult topics.
“One key aspect of our success was working out the right messages to convince those swing voters we needed to win over (and these weren't always the messages that resonated most with our core supporters); and identifying the right messengers to deliver them (not always the people who had been active on the issue for the longest),” wrote Matthew Elliott in an email conversation with Atlas Network in advance of an upcoming Atlas Leadership Academy training.
Elliott is the former CEO of the Vote Leave campaign, which became the official campaigning organization to leave the EU. In this webinar, he will take viewers back to 2016 to share his valuable insights on what lessons think tanks can learn from this successful campaign.
“Major policy changes are never impossible,” Elliott continued. “Who would have thought that a coalition of people working over two decades could convince a country to leave a major international organisation? But with a lot of perseverance, we managed to make history.”
Elliott’s current work as a senior fellow at the Legatum Institute is focused on a U.K.-U.S. trade deal and researching the rise of populism abroad. After leading the Vote Leave campaign, Elliiott is now one of the U.K.'s foremost political campaigners. He also led NOtoAV and won the 2011 referendum on the Alternative Vote. And as a policy entrepreneur, he has founded and run numerous award-winning campaigns, starting with the TaxPayers’ Alliance (TPA), where he won Atlas Network’s $100,000 Templeton Freedom Award for ‘The Single Income Tax.’
https://www.atlasnetwork.org/news/article/how-to-use-brexit-as-an-example-for-future-policy-changes
In 2016, the United Kingdom surprised the world by deciding to leave the European Union. Campaign victories like that don’t come out of nowhere. Behind the scenes, teams engage audiences, navigate policy discussions, work with the press, and debate difficult topics.
“One key aspect of our success was working out the right messages to convince those swing voters we needed to win over (and these weren't always the messages that resonated most with our core supporters); and identifying the right messengers to deliver them (not always the people who had been active on the issue for the longest),” wrote Matthew Elliott in an email conversation with Atlas Network in advance of an upcoming Atlas Leadership Academy training.
Elliott is the former CEO of the Vote Leave campaign, which became the official campaigning organization to leave the EU. In this webinar, he will take viewers back to 2016 to share his valuable insights on what lessons think tanks can learn from this successful campaign.
“Major policy changes are never impossible,” Elliott continued. “Who would have thought that a coalition of people working over two decades could convince a country to leave a major international organisation? But with a lot of perseverance, we managed to make history.”
Elliott’s current work as a senior fellow at the Legatum Institute is focused on a U.K.-U.S. trade deal and researching the rise of populism abroad. After leading the Vote Leave campaign, Elliiott is now one of the U.K.'s foremost political campaigners. He also led NOtoAV and won the 2011 referendum on the Alternative Vote. And as a policy entrepreneur, he has founded and run numerous award-winning campaigns, starting with the TaxPayers’ Alliance (TPA), where he won Atlas Network’s $100,000 Templeton Freedom Award for ‘The Single Income Tax.’
Brian
Eating fat, staying slim
Fact is, after nearly half a century of EU membership, whatever the leave side did the remain campaign should have had so much positive material to shout about, remaining in the EU should have walked it. So, quite a feat, but outside the 2016 referendum people still had to vote to enable the tories in 2017, and again in 2019 when they could have voted for a second referendum, or even for revoking A50.
A large part of the grand plan of this Elliott bloke was clearly to appeal to nationalism and racism ( see bold section ) which go hand-in-hand and the rest is history. It was done so well some people still don’t see it to this day and would do it all again given the chance.
Time for some to wake up.
TheDecameron
Unicorns fart glitter.
But taking back control, levelling up, but clap for nurses!
Tony L
Administrator
We did. We told absolutely everyone what was good about what we had and what would happen if we left. We were right. Everything we feared is playing out exactly as we suspected. The problem is racism, xenophobia and far-right nationalism are very dangerous and powerful forces and far too many bought into that rhetoric. This is far from the first time in history far-right ideology has gained traction, and make no mistake this trajectory is still ongoing.
eternumviti
Insufficient privileges to reply.
Dark money or not (I didn't see any reference to it in the piece, which you quoted in full), there is a certain irony in the fact that the right secretly campaigned for 20 years to take us into the then EEC, whilst wiser heads on the left councelled against it.
Ironic too that the left now simperingly drools, in the perpetually assumed position, over the EU, from the outset an anti-democratic, neoliberal project dressed up in the ever more diaphanous garb of social democracy.
eternumviti
Insufficient privileges to reply.
I must have missed it.
What did you say was good about the EU again?
Incidentally, if you really want to see racism, xenophobia and far right nationalism playing out, there are no shortage of places in the EU that will willingly help you out. Not to mention beyond it.
ff1d1l
pfm Member
Enough with the pathetic deflection. How about closer to home? How about the tory party?
Brian
Eating fat, staying slim
I disagree. The remain campaign concentrated almost totally on predictions of what would happen if we left, there were almost no positives of membership forcefully put about by the remain campaign to counter the propaganda from the leave campaign. Everyone remembers the red bus and posters from the leave campaign, what were the memorable positives from the remain campaign?
Predictions are easy for the other side to counter and it doesn’t matter whether they have turned out true or not, during the campaign they were predictions, not fact. Remain needed to campaign on the positive facts of EU membership but they failed badly. This was said at the time by many people.
I can’t see what this fart has to do with the post from Colin but it’s par for the course. Why do you want to give nurses the clap?
eternumviti
Insufficient privileges to reply.
That's deflection, Mr ff1d.
You want an antidote to the Tories? Can I suggest a worthwhile opposition. The clock's ticking.
TheDecameron
Unicorns fart glitter.
I love the sham of tribal Tory complaining about ‘neoliberal projects’, the poor Greek pensioners on their socialist pensions, the struggling African farmer ( give them tariff free access to the U.K. market and wipe out our local chaps) and Brexit means lower prices for the struggling British housewife ( while wiping out domestic production). It’s like something Daniel Hannan or Rod Liddle would flick off the wrist after the editor had threatened to sack them for missing a print deadline at The Spectator.
eternumviti
Insufficient privileges to reply.
That runner had promise, but it fell at the first fence. There are no 'tribal tories' in this room. I might instinctively be a bit of a 'c', but its just a small one.
We said, many times. I'm not typing it again.
Top class whataboutery. There are criminals in the EU, USA, Russia too. That doesn't mean our own get a free pass.
eternumviti
Insufficient privileges to reply.
I'm not at all sure that I've seen any positives of the EU on here, at least none that didn't either pre-exist the EU, or that couldn't exist perfectly well without the EU.
That's precisely my point. We never hear any mention of racism, xenophobia or far right nationalism in the EU on this forum, only long rants about that which is perceived to be such a dominant force in the UK.
Whilst nobody is trying to excuse racism, I'm afraid that the UK is pretty benign compared with many other countries both within and beyond the EU, and is widely perceived as one of the most 'tolerant' (I hate that word) in Europe.
I'll give you a starter. Food and drug standards. Freedom to travel for work. Amongst others. Could it exist without the EU? Yes, but so could anything. Any 2 states can agree a joint standard, after all. The fact that it doesn't happen very often tells the story. Chloro chicken, hormones in beef, anyone? In addition I'd like to go and work in the USA for a few months. That's easy, right? They'll recognise my qualis, won't they?
Yes we do. And in the USA.
So because I only beat my wife once a week, while my neighbour does it every day, I'm the good guy? No.
The UK has seen an increase in racist incidents in recent years. Not just my experience, it's reported elsewhere. I don't give a flying one that Hungary or Poland may be worse, I don't have to live there. Oh, and I do have to live in the UK now, even if I had the right in the past to move about.
Sue Pertwee-Tyr
Accuphase all the way down
You won't need reminding that it's harder to sell the status quo than to sell something new, if you can couch the new thing as attractive and exciting, compared to what people already have (and therefore take for granted).
I agree, though, the Remain campaign didn't big up the benefits of the status quo so much as point out how things would be worse if those benefits went away. But it's like an equation:
benefit of something = downside of not having something.
How you describe it is the tactical/political choice, but to say that the benefits of the EU were never outlined is a bit disingenuous; it's rather that they were outlined as things we'd lose, rather than things we now enjoyed. Most people would expect those to be equivalent, as in the equation, but swathes of the British electorate didn't/couldn't do the math.
Brian
Eating fat, staying slim
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