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"bodies": is it the greatest rock 'n roll track ever?

Well, the Spunk LP and the Spedding demos were always better than the official Bollocks release, but I think it's aged extremely well, it's still a fabulous record.

-- Ian
 
I think NMTB has aged extremely well. I've never had a problem with the production. It seems to me that whenever bands talk about getting their raw energy down on record it invariably ends up sounding thin and weedy and completely missing the point. There is no doubt that the Pistols needed to break up when they did.

As for the Clash, well I saw them in Australia in 1980 after Sandinista came out (which I wasn't too crazy about at the time) and they were incredible. I've never taken any notice of any band's bluster (who cares), but I've always enjoyed The Clash's music and still do.
 
I think that the Dave Goodman June/July 1976 'Spunk' demos (when combined with his October 1976 and early 1977 demos = 'No Future') have dated far more than the Chris Thomas 'Bollocks' productions. Spedding's May 1976 demos show a band slowly finding their feet in the studio, and are historically fascinating - nothing more.

Goodman's recordings major on being, in his own word "heavy", the official ones sound clipped, enunciated, tight and nasty. Somehwere between the two are Mike Thorne's December 1976 cuts. Most of the above can be found on the 'No Future' vinyl (or the new extended 'Spunk' CD) combined with the 'Swindle' LP and, most informatively, the 3 CD 'SexBox1' boxset released in 2002 which happens to include the best CD copy of NMTBHTSP.

As for The Clash - they were sub-standard pub-rockers who could afford enough sulphate to 'sound' punk. By the time they found their own Americanised style they were sadly out of date.
 
I have a load of stuff sitting on top of the lid of my LP12 at the moment and can't be arsed to move it for a listen. Whilst loading up iTunes on my newly aquired Mac powerbook NMTB had the honour of being the first Album copied. It is a double CD with the spunk demo's too. I've never really listened to then before but reckon that they will be getting more airing in the future.

BTW Fox, I picked up that Suicide double LP that you heartily recomended a few months ago, i found it quite an aquired taste and probably won't be converting it to digital......
 
Sir said:
I think that the Dave Goodman June/July 1976 'Spunk' demos (when combined with his October 1976 and early 1977 demos = 'No Future') have dated far more than the Chris Thomas 'Bollocks' productions.
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No way. The version of Submission on the Spunk LP is the best thing they ever recorded, I reckon.

-- Ian
 
Sid and Coke said:
BTW Fox, I picked up that Suicide double LP that you heartily recomended a few months ago, i found it quite an aquired taste and probably won't be converting it to digital......
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Oh well, can't win them all. The extra LP with the riot at the concert where the Mic is taken from the band is a hoot. And that its made up from machinery all on the verge of falling to bits adds to the noisyness... Noise = Fun.

I had another listen to the NMTB and i'll go further then "not aged well": its a sham. Its merely a heavy metal LP. The production of the record doesn't fool me. Its not even all that heavy just a wall of layered guitar with some reasonably tight drumming and no bass (to speak of). So I can see why it would appeal to the nerdier Audiophile types. Punk had started to implode by then anyway so it/they was already living on borrowed time.

If anyone happens to prefer NMTB over the Spunk Bootleg then I reckon you've missed the point of the genre entirely.
 
fox said:
I had another listen to the NMTB and i'll go further then "not aged well": its a sham. Its merely a heavy metal LP. The production of the record doesn't fool me. Its not even all that heavy just a wall of layered guitar with some reasonably tight drumming and no bass (to speak of). So I can see why it would appeal to the nerdier Audiophile types.
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Audiophile types talk about the production rather than the about the record :)

Anyway, 90% of punk records were trebly to the max, and had no bass. This is a True Fact.

-- Ian
 
sideshowbob said:
Audiophile types talk about the production rather than the about the record :)
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But that's all there is to NMTB -- production. The record is only production. If you want the songs go to the Spunk Bootlegs... or maybe a few of the live recordings floating about.

Anyway, 90% of punk records were trebly to the max, and had no bass. This is a True Fact.
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And the remaining 10% are the ones worth listening to. (I'll trade you one Gang of Four Love like a case of Anthrax for all the non single tracks off NMTB)
 
fox said:
But that's all there is to NMTB -- production. The record is only production. If you want the songs go to the Spunk Bootlegs... or maybe a few of the live recordings floating about.
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I prefer the Spunk LP (not a bootleg, btw, it was actually put out by Glitterbest) too, but I think you're overstating your case. NMTB is one of the most influential LPs in history, and that isn't because of how it's produced, it's because it's a fantastic record. Without it very little of the music you were listening to in the 5 years afterwards would have been made. It's just revisionism to deny this. After all, most people who listened to the Pistols and fell in love with them did so because of the singles and NMTB, not because of the Spunk record or the gigs or the Spedding demos.

And the remaining 10% are the ones worth listening to. (I'll trade you one Gang of Four Love like a case of Anthrax for all the non single tracks off NMTB)
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The GO4 are a great group, no question, but a very different proposition to the Pistols. Metal Box up against Entertainment! would be a much harder choice.

As for the remaining 10% of records being the stuff worth listening to, you're excluding an awful lot if you throw out the trebly majority. Crossing the Red Sea With The Adverts and Richard Hell and the Voidoids' Blank Generation immediately spring to mind, but there are so many others.

-- Ian
 
I think I'd pretty much moved on to Dub by the time NMTB had been released which might give you some indication where I was heading... but I totally disagree with the influence NMTB had on Punk. Many bands were already out before its release doing good work. NMTB came far too late to have the kind of influence history attributes NMTB with. The singles OTOH were absolutely critial... pivotal. "Anarchy In the UK" even switched me on to music, got me picking up a bass and doing something... anything... By "Pretty Vacant" I'd moved into Rough Trade (Portobello) and Small Wonder (Walthamstow) territory and by NMTB I was already looking at Throbbing Gristle for ideas and scratching my head wondering how long the same chords and structure will stand scrutiny.

By NMTB Punk was getting... well... boring...

Without it very little of the music you were listening to in the 5 years afterwards would have been made. It's just revisionism to deny this.
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I just don't think anyone can state with any accuracy whether the next 5 years would or would not have not happened without the Pistols let alone NMTB. Sorry but I think that's making them messianic harbingers of some great change (that was going to happen anyway)... that's revisionism and playing into Lydon's take on history which just because its more reliable than McLaren's is still nonetheless flawed. The Pistols were not operating in a vacuum and their "sound" wasn't even new... Being lifted straight from The New York Dolls several years earlier. If it had not been the Pistols it would have been someone else.

By the time NMTB was released it was all over -- creating the second and third wave -- the suburban implosion... from those bands pretending to be punks and learning to break out of the limitations of "here's three chords -- go form a band" is where the interesting stuff started to happen. Like fungus on a rotting tree root.
 
fox said:
By the time NMTB was released it was all over -- creating the second and third wave -- the suburban implosion... from those bands pretending to be punks and learning to break out of the limitations of "here's three chords -- go form a band" is where the interesting stuff started to happen. Like fungus on a rotting tree root.
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Agreed. NMTB (along with Siouxsie's The Scream) came very late in their existance probably due to record company/media scares etc. even us up in the sticks of East Yorkshire had formed and split our first punk band by that stage. So despite it not being the influential album some reckon - it was for me a perfect summation of what they did. The 4 singles plus the rest...tidied up a bit from the demos resulting in a truly great album.

Cheers

Rich
 
Never Mind The Bollocks is the bin-lid on that particular bin. It was the clear end-point for punk - anything that came later and used the same architecture was pointless, dated and stupid. It was the line in the sand that said “this is now done, do something else”. It was the clear launch point for new-wave.

For me NMTB is a good compilation of the Sex Pistol’s singles, B-sides and a few other bits packaged in a nice brightly coloured Jamie Reid sleeve – what’s not to like?

Tony.
 
Tony L said:
B-sides
Tony.
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Being extra picky Tony - there are no B-sides on Bollocks. For them you need the 4 singles to get I wanna Be Me, Did You No Wrong, No Fun and Satellite.

Cheers

Rich

PS Admit I had to look the Holidays b-side up!
 
Shows how long it is since I played NMTB - I could have sworn it had No Fun on it! Obviously not.

Tony.
 
Some of the imports added some B sides and the CD reissues almost always add them. ISTR there was a fair bit of confusion when it was initially released -- some having an extra track (Submission was a 1 sided single inside the sleeve, initially) as well.
 
Some of the imports added some B sides and the CD reissues almost always add them. ISTR there was a fair bit of confusion when it was initially released -- some having an extra track (Submission was a 1 sided single inside the sleeve, initially) as well.
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My copy is the one with the plain pink back cover and I’ve also got a 1 sided Submission, though it is not right for that issue as it’s on the album (I picked it up later at a car boot).

Tony.
 
Just sussed out there is a 3 CD box set that came out a couple of years back on Virgin. Anyone confirm if it is as great as it should be and briefly what demo sessions are included?

Cheers

Rich
 
Ricky,
I don't know your definition of great, but it is OK.
It has the May '76 Spedding Demos on it, and the very rare Mike Thorne December '76 demos too.

Disc 1 is NMTBHTSP, plus B-Sides, plus the Spedding tracks.
Disc 2 are mainly Goodman's July '76, October '76 and January '77 demo's (including the cover versions they did). You get an alternative version of the official 'Anarchy In The U.K.' and four other Thomas produced tracks. The Thorne demos (and the 'hidden' instrumentals) are great - and show what Bollocks could have sounded like if the band had had a bassist by then!
Disc 3 is 'live': the whole of 'Screen on the Green', plus another Small Faces cover, two versions of "Flowers..." and the Dallas version of "Belsen Was a Gas".
 
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