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Best system to go with Yamaha NS-1000's?

I’ve just had a demo with a Unison Research 80W int/amp and Unico CD player. Masses of control but still feel the hybrid lacked the warmth of a full tube amp.

Are there any hybrids out there that offer this that could be used with the Yamaha NS-1000's?
 
Hey Lizzie,
where have you been hiding ?
Looks like you still got a liking for the big bottom end LOL
Give me a call
i got just the thing
Cheers
john
 
I just acquired a pair of the Yams. They became available at a very reasonable price and being curious I thought, what the heck, I won't lose if I don't like them, I can sell them.

From what I'd read about them they are either a) bright and forward in the midrange or b) ruthlessly revealing of any brightness further down the chain. Which view you subscribe to may depend on how high in esteem you rate what's further down the chain ... or not.

There's a useful write up of them on HFWs Olde Worlde - http://www.hi-fiworld.co.uk/hfw/oldeworldehtml/yamahans1000m.html, where they suggest that partnered with SS amps like the Naims which ruled the HiFi press in the eighties they sounded harsh, but partnered with valves or class A SS they sounded sublime. The suggestion was that this was simply their revealing nature exposing the character of the typical SS sound of the time which worked far better with the bextrene coned BBC monitors and variations of favoured at the time. I wouldn't know and I wouldn't court contoversy by stating an opinion :)

All I can say is that from my limited experience with them so far (a day and a couple of evenings) is that whilst I wouldn't go so far as to say they were harsh with my SS Densen, in my room they certainly benefit from knocking back the mid and tweeter using the front mounted controls.

Other than that they are a huge improvement over my Kefs, once I'd fiddled with those knobs a little, the mid and high end are beautifully realistic, with bags of detail and unfatiguing. Bass seemed a bit disappointing at first, there not seeming to be much of it - especially given the size of those woofers - and what there was of it a bit detached. I was surprised that placing them a lot closer to the wall than the Kefs improved matters considerably - good, clean, tuneful bass going down a long way - in a position close enough to the wall that my Kefs would have boomed all over the place.

Not sure I'll keep them though, they sure are ugly. They also seem to show up duff recordings a bit too ruthlessly (what they were designed for I guess). Which for a lot of folks would be a very good thing, but personally I'd rather some of my favourite but less well recorded/mastered stuff weren't so exposed (Oh for a "rose tinted specs" button on an amp :) ).

The Unison hybrid is valve pre and ss power I believe. A question I asked a while ago, but didn't get any further on is how much of that valve "character" comes from the pre and how much the power. Just wondering because if the Yams really are as revealing as HFW suggest, the dem with the Unison might suggest its the power amp side that does it. If I were tempted to keep my Yams (might need some cosmetic surgery mind), the possibility of using the Densen for the Preamp and getting a valve power would be quite tempting.

Addenda: Bloody hell. Just listened to the first Boards of Canada CD with the Yams in place. Proper trouser flapping bass and not a hint of boom to be heard ... for some strange reason they seem to be interacting with the room upstairs (Auntie Ants' office/studio) and making her floorboards vibrate :cool: I'm starting to like these ugly ducklings :D
 
Ants,
I am about to sell my own NS1000M's, due to their "underground"/low WAF! I used a variety of amps on them down the years, ss and valves. In fact, I wrote to HFW last Autumn, recounting my experiences.
The best amps, IMHO, were Leak Stereo 20 (valve, but restored) and Exposure 4 (solid state). I also enjoyed Sugden A21 and A21a, even had a borrow of the Masterclass power...
The amp I stuck with longest was an old McIntosh MC2105 (solid state), although I also had a time on the Yamaha B-2 (V-FET, solid state), which would have been it's natural partner, as they were marketed together in the '70s.
If you want a good, inexpensive pre/power, try for an Exposure 7/8 combo: great sound, but won't play very loud.
Interestingly, I have changed in the other direction: I am now using KEFs, which "SWMBO" is far more accepting of...
If money is not a big issue, look out for an Exposure 4 DR power amp. It will totally ROCK with NS1000Ms.
If your Densen has pre-outs, you could use it as a pre-amp, in the short term. Or, alternatively, I have an Exposure 11 pre and power supply available :)
Hope this info. helps...
 
Actually its not Auntie Ants who has the problem with them looks wise ... its me :) . She's been listening to them all evening ... discovering all kinds of bits she (or I) had never heard of before in OK Computer and The Bends and getting all girly over Jeff Buckley :rolleyes:

I said to her that we'd have to do something about their ugly mugs and she said that she thought they were rather cool in a retro sort of way and that if we were to keep them I should leave them be.

As to amps. The Densen has pre outs, and from what I understand is regarded to have a pretty good pre stage anyway, so I'd leave it in place probably long term (I love it to death, I must admit - see its me what's fussy about looks ... WAF doesn't come into it round here). Would a Leak really have the get up and go to drive these? I don't drive my system silly loud, but still 10 watts a side? Is it really enough?
 
The Densen has pre outs, and from what I understand is regarded to have a pretty good pre stage anyway

The Beat 100 is a high gain power amp with a passive preamp, i.e. the pre is just a volume knob and an input selector, the only active element is if you have the phono boards installed. As such it is probably not best to consider it as a universal preamp.

Tony.
 
Tony L said:
The Beat 100 is a high gain power amp with a passive preamp, i.e. the pre is just a volume knob and an input selector, the only active element is if you have the phono boards installed. As such it is probably not best to consider it as a universal preamp.

Tony.

Cheers Tony - funny you mention it, I was just digging through my file of manuals to see what I could find about the pre amp section and yup, you're right its a passive pre. Now I don't mind appearing ignorant where I am. I've only ever had 3 amps in my life (actually a few more, but not that I've used in anger), all integrated ... what are the implications of a passive versus active pre in terms of the kind of power amp that I could match with it if I chose to go that route. To be frank, if I have to lose the Densen for my control, I'd be upset :rolleyes:

PS. If it makes any diff, yes I have the phono board installed.
 
Uncle Ants said:
Would a Leak really have the get up and go to drive these? I don't drive my system silly loud, but still 10 watts a side? Is it really enough?
I wouldn't have thought so, but I think it probably depends on the size of your room and the volumes you like to listen at. I'd keep the the Densen and play about with the speakers' on-board EQ and positioning a bit TBH.

typical SS sound of the time which worked far better with the bextrene coned BBC monitors and variations of favoured at the time. I wouldn't know and I wouldn't court contoversy by stating an opinion
The review is complete bollocks. But you knew that, of course :)
 
joel said:
I wouldn't have thought so, but I think it probably depends on the size of your room and the volumes you like to listen at. I'd keep the the Densen and play about with the speakers' on-board EQ and positioning a bit TBH.

I'm not going to be rushing into anything don't worry, plenty of time to fiddle with them before deciding on anything. If I kept the speakers, other than carts, it'd only be the third change I'd made in 5 years. I don't rush into these things really.

joel said:
The review is complete bollocks. But you knew that, of course :)

Not complete bollocks. These really are quite extraordinary speakers as the review suggests ;)
 
I was surprised that placing them a lot closer to the wall than the Kefs improved matters considerably - good, clean, tuneful bass going down a long way - in a position close enough to the wall that my Kefs would have boomed all over the place.

I missed that the first time I read the thread and it is important – IIRC the NS1000 are wall proximity speakers, i.e. designed to sit hard against a back wall like a Linn Kan or SBL etc. Amazingly this is also true of the little NS10, which is why they sound so bloody awful in studios without additional eq (I've never tried it, but I bet they would sound great at home on Kan stands against a solid wall). This explains why you have had to back the top and mid drivers off a bit on your NS1000s and why the bass sounds detached and a bit lacking. Get them as close to a solid rear wall as you can on rigid low stands and they should integrate nicely, and the Densen should sound fine with them.

Now I don't mind appearing ignorant where I am. I've only ever had 3 amps in my life (actually a few more, but not that I've used in anger), all integrated ... what are the implications of a passive versus active pre in terms of the kind of power amp that I could match with it if I chose to go that route.

Two things: a) a passive pre can only attenuate, not amplify, so it may have gain issues with some sources / power amplifier combos, and b) loading, being passive it will be very sensitive, so could sound over dull or bright dependant upon what it is matched with, i.e, it’s a gamble.

Tony.
 
Thanks Tony,

They can't be pushed absolutely hard against the back wall, they are in a bay where the back wall slopes away, but they are as close in as I can physically make them and in this position the bass seems very good indeed - very even and going down noticably lower than the Kefs - so no bass prob now. Still have the controls backed down some though.

With the controls in this position they seem very good indeed for mebbe 80% (made up stat, but you know what I mean) of what I've chucked at them. What I'm unsure of is whether those recordings which do seem a tad too bright, simply are too bright and the Yams are telling me that ... in which case, live with it or go elsewhere (this was just an experiment after all) ... or if there might be something I could do about it.

I'd love it to be the latter. There were points last night when my eyes (ears) really were opened by these speakers. OK Computer is definitely one of the albums which were in the "tad too bright" category - but otoh there is stuff going on in that record, ghostly guitar lines, little drum snaps, I'd never heard before which on a couple of tracks made them make far more musical sense than they had before (Fitter Happier took on a completely different quality). But I guess like all setups there are compromises involved and I'm not sure I can live with a compromise which implies that Meat is Murder is just a bit too janglesome for sensitive ears :)

Re passive v pre. I understand - I don't mind a bit of gamble if when I decide its not for me, I can just sell em and move back (or on to soemthing else). I was thinking that maybe if one of the WAD power amps came up second hand it might be worth taking a flier - The WAD pres are passive, so presumably they are designed to cope.

Whether I keep the Yams or not, the experiment has been worthwhile in that its kind of opened my ears to what my system is capable of and indicated that the Kefs really are the weak link.

Anyway - apologies to Planetzany, I feel a bit guilty for hijacking your thread - still at least its not off topic :)
 
Not complete bollocks. These really are quite extraordinary speakers as the review suggests
I think they have the potential. Friends whose opinion I do trust rate them highly.

Maybe I should pick up a pair. Cure all my WAF problems in one go, and they are CHEAP here...
 
Uncle Ants said:
TI was thinking that maybe if one of the WAD power amps came up second hand it might be worth taking a flier - The WAD pres are passive, so presumably they are designed to cope.
I think mucking around with speakers is the way to go, certainly for the moment. The Yams have clearly been a good investigative buy at least. You can use the "free hifi" credo to check something else out now, at low cost and low risk :)
 
joel said:
I think they have the potential. Friends whose opinion I do trust rate them highly.

Maybe I should pick up a pair. Cure all my WAF problems in one go, and they are CHEAP here...

Depends on the "W" in WAF I guess. Like I mentioned the looks are more an Uncle Ants Acceptance Factor problem in this house. The reason I would hope to keep the Densen, even if only as a pre is partly that Auntie, really wouldn't let me drop the Densen without a struggle - she loves it (she's a designer and no doubt she'd start on about functionality, clean Danish design, beauty and William Morris) - Why she likes the looks of the Yams I don't know. I do need better stands though - the ones I've got are the right height but they are just skinny things I had knocking about.
 
Uncle Ants said:
Depends on the "W" in WAF I guess.
My wife likes speakers that look like speakers rather than Supersize Alien Bogroll. What she likes rather less is that they are out in the middle of the room...
 
Uncle Ants said:
Re passive v pre. I understand - I don't mind a bit of gamble if when I decide its not for me, I can just sell em and move back (or on to soemthing else). I was thinking that maybe if one of the WAD power amps came up second hand it might be worth taking a flier - The WAD pres are passive, so presumably they are designed to cope.

I Have both the WAD 6550 and WAD Pre II. All of the WAD power amps have very benign loading characteristics with the input impedance on the 6550 circuit at an extremely high 1M Ohm and no capacitance worth worrying about. In most situations the input impedance is lowered with a resistor (100K in my case). They are perfect for passives. The Pre II is in fact an active pre amp with X5 gain and drives the load via a pair of large transformers.

I'd have thought a WAD 6550 or KAT88 (very similar) would be superb with the Yams. Both are solid, bold sounding amps and very similar in presentation to a good SS but without the fatigue and hardness of SS. Bass form the 6550 gives a NAP250 a good run - it has chunky well designed output tranformers to give tight dynamic bass.

Where are you based?
 


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