Best brand for longevity

[sonddek]

And of course you're not biased.

Pondering this, I'm not sure what my many biases have to do with it. It is simply a fact that the average DIYer can replace the bearing in minutes by sharpening a standard M4 bolt on a hand drill, and that will provide factory-fresh performance.

I don't think many high-performance arms offer the same ability to be serviced easily by the user - correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Ptah]

Judging by the Exposure thread there are many happy users of the 1980s kit. Hopefully my 2017 stuff will last as long; seems pretty robust.

 

[gustav_errata]

I can't speak from experience with their gear, but I at least like the attitude that NJC Audio take towards their DAC, which is designed for long-term service by using only chips that are readily available from UK/US sources even if that means eschewing the latest XMOS USB chip or ESS DAC chip, etc. That said, as a one-man band, there's always the risk of them going under, but hopefully the simplicity of the device lends itself to easier repair. When I do start saving for a new DAC, I'm 95% sure it'll be theirs.

 

[RoA]

I can't speak from experience with their gear, but I at least like the attitude that NJC Audio take towards their DAC, which is designed for long-term service by using only chips that are readily available from UK/US sources even if that means eschewing the latest XMOS USB chip or ESS DAC chip, etc. That said, as a one-man band, there's always the risk of them going under, but hopefully the simplicity of the device lends itself to easier repair. When I do start saving for a new DAC, I'm 95% sure it'll be theirs.

Do the (actual) DAC chips go wrong?

 

[mercalia]

SME and QUAD spring to mind.

audiolab?

 

[Beobloke]

Garrard.

OK, so maybe they’re no longer officially supporting all their products but I reckon most people will still be able to service an SP25 in 50 years time!

 

[gustav_errata]

Do the (actual) DAC chips go wrong?

Indeed, probably not, if the longevity of TDA1541 etc devices is anything to go by (he uses Cirrus Logic / Wolfson chips FWIW). As I said, it's just the overall attitude that I appreciate. He won't tie himself to something that he's not confident he won't be able to access in the long-term.

 

[paulfromcamden]

Possibly what TYPE of equipment needs to come into this, rather than brand. Within that, brands could then be compared I guess.

eg well engineered but simple TT's usually go on for 50+ years with nothing more than drop of oil and a new belt or idler wheel. This is nothing out of the ordinary for such TT's.

Some speakers which have neither foam surrounds on woofers nor ferrofluid in tweeters and have no electrolytics in the crossover seem to to go on for similar years without trouble (some of these do get issues with hardening of roll surround or decaying cabinets of course.. and local heat, humidity and direct sunlight make a huge difference here!)

If your CD player has lasted 10 years of regular use so far then you've done well. (yes, yes someone will have a 1987 machine that's never been repaired... allegedly...)

This is pretty much why I've been happy to invest in the Croft amp (modest in audiophile terms but a big chunk of change in my world), decent speakers etc but have held off on getting too spendy with anything digital.

 

[Tony L]

Garrard.

OK, so maybe they’re no longer officially supporting all their products but I reckon most people will still be able to service an SP25 in 50 years time!

Once a product gets to a certain level of credibility and lasting desirability, e.g. the 301, 401, 124, Leak, Quad, Radford amps, ESLs, vintage Tannoys, BBC monitors etc etc they will not be allowed to die and after-market solutions to missing or damaged components always become available as there is such a market. This is the best place to buy IMHO as everything is widely documented and easily serviced. It is the closest to zero-risk free-ownership audio out there as all one is doing is investing in and maintaining an appreciating asset. It is like owning a vintage Strat, Les Paul or Rolex.

 

[Tryant]

Once a product gets to a certain level of credibility and lasting desirability, e.g. the 301, 401, 124, Leak, Quad, Radford amps, ESLs, vintage Tannoys, BBC monitors etc etc they will not be allowed to die and after-market solutions to missing or damaged components always become available as there is such a market. This is the best place to buy IMHO as everything is widely documented and easily serviced. It is the closest to zero-risk free-ownership audio out there as all one is doing is investing in and maintaining an appreciating asset. It is like owning a vintage Strat, Les Paul or Rolex.

I'm not sure I'd agree with that happy vision. There will always be DIY enthusiasts messing around with vintage stuff in any field, but there are fewer and fewer professional service engineers for this sort of skilled work. The UK is better than other countries I suspect, but the engineers who are still repairing say vintage valve amps for a living are getting on. I have the impression that they also have a different set of values than DIYers who were never properly trained. I can't see this trend reversing in my lifetime. I think it's part of the general trend of de-skilling in manufacturing in the West.

 

[Tony L]

I'm not sure I'd agree with that happy vision. There will always be DIY enthusiasts messing around with vintage stuff in any field, but there are fewer and fewer professional service engineers for this sort of skilled work.

It is really the parts supply I was highlighting, e.g. if you want a new idler, belt, motor mounting, even to replace absolutely all the sintered bronze bushings in a TD-124 they are not only available, but you actually have a lot of choice available as there are many competing third-party products.

I’d also argue that once a product is really a classic everything one needs to know is very widely documented in the public domain not only in schematics, but full tutorials and walk-throughs on forums, YouTube etc. I have found it hugely liberating as I can service my own kit to a professional standard in most cases for the price of buying some decent quality tools and being prepared to learn. For those who don’t want to do this for whatever reason a whole boutique industry has grown around these products and you can actually spend vast amounts of money for certain self-professed high-end third-party restoration services. I am happy those choices exist for those who want them, though I have always far preferred to learn and do my own stuff right from my very first Lenco back in the late-70s.

 

[Gervais Cote]

Many manufacturers still make long lasting equipment, just make sure the volume control is a good quality standard potentiometer, not a digital one.
My top list would be :
Exposure
Accuphase
Sugden
Marantz
Naim vintage chrome bumper

 

[messengerman]

For longevity what we buy seems more relevant now than the brand that made it.

Digital source last and least seems to be the only sensible way to approach things. Even if the digital gadget doesn't break it will all too soon become obsolete so why bother buying an expensive one?

In my case I'm content to pair an old pc and s/h Dacmagic with various amps (none less than thirty years old) and a pair of JBL L300s made in 1976. I doubt I'm missing anything. When my daughter moved out I got her an iFi bluetooth thingy to plug into a fifty year old Tandberg receiver. Her and her pals use their phones as streamers which makes perfect sense. No extra gadget. No extra waste. No learning curve.

Obsolescence will might well do for the Dacmagic (Hi Res?), the old PC (Windows 11) and the iFi (whatever replaces Buetooth) before they irreparably break but either way the Tandberg, the JBLs and the other analogue stuff will outlive the various hi-tech digital bits and and outlive whatever replaces them too. Thank God for RCA line in.

 

[Darren L]

I wonder how much classic gear, Thorens, Garrards , Leaks and Radfords were dumped years ago due to parts unavailability, prior to the rise of the specialist companies or YouTube tutorials @Tony L
Whilst I'm sure you're a totally competent 'analogue' electronics engineer @Arkless Electronics the point of my previous post was that the insurance company could not provide one (in N.Ireland at least, in fact I still don't know of competent audio electronics engineer in NI) the Creek amp was scrapped, I must admit it suited me just fine as I had (and continue to have) a New for Old contents insurance policy, so happy days £750 for an amp that cost £60.

 

[Jono_13]

Media format needs considering as well, how many MiniDisks or DCC tapes are still sealed up and ready to use?

I agree with Tony on the more complex products using difficult or unobtainium parts facing long term lifespan issues, however, provided they can be recycled in some sensible way then I treat them as part of the longer replay journey.

I do worry that my Atom will not last as long as my Yamaha WXC-50 for streaming duties, but I will deal with that when the time comes.

Firmware is not really the problem in my mind for streaming, new formats that require different hardware to replay is. This makes obselescence more likely and probably will be the death of many otherwise perfectly serviceable pieces of kit.

 

[Tony L]

I wonder how much classic gear, Thorens, Garrards , Leaks and Radfords were dumped years ago due to parts unavailability, prior to the rise of the specialist companies or YouTube tutorials @Tony L

As in most things to do with audio the Japanese were well ahead of the trend so whilst a lot of these turntables (and classic amps and speakers) were ending up junked here due to the aggressive 1980s Thatcherite magazine and dealer marketing and consumerism many were quietly being bought cheap by those in the know and shipped out to the east. Sadly I wasn’t one in the know!

I’m sure only a tiny fraction of those manufactured survive today due to this period of UK hi-fi history, plus a lot would have been absolutely hammered in broadcast environments. Garrard were making around 7000 301s/401s a year from 1954 right through to the early ‘70s, and I suspect 124s and Lencos were not far behind. Astronomical figures compared to anything in today’s audio market.

The good thing is enough still survive today. If someone really wants one they can find one even if the price does now reflect the quality at hand. As with music the internet age has brought a huge democratisation of knowledge and has cut through marketing groupthink with surgical precision. The true classics of all design concepts and eras have earned their place whilst the magazine and dealer spammed-up flavour of the month junk has rightfully been consigned to history. It is the same with any collector market. Give it time to settle and it will sort itself.

 

[Tryant]

For those who don’t want to do this for whatever reason a whole boutique industry has grown around these products and you can actually spend vast amounts of money for certain self-professed high-end third-party restoration services.

There used to be a time when you could walk into a small or mid-sized town anywhere in the UK and find a shop where they could fix a tv -- or a Leak amp. I don't dispute there's a thriving DIY community of vintage hifi enthusiasts well supported by the internet. Way before the internet there was already a thriving community of vintage car and bike enthusiasts that still exists today, many of whom did and still do their own repairs. There are all sorts of thriving little DIY communities. They're tiny niche markets based around products that need regular servicing. For the bloke who doesn't have the interest or skills to mess around with keeping a vintage valve amp running properly and safely, there actually fewer and fewer places that can do that work well and not cost a small fortune.

 

[Tony L]

For the bloke who doesn't have the interest or skills to mess around with keeping a vintage valve amp running properly and safely, there actually fewer and fewer places that can do that work well and not cost a small fortune.

Valve amps are well catered for as the technology is still mass-market for guitar amps. Every guitar shop, recording or rehearsal studio will have amp tech contacts to hand. They all do them, e.g. I’ve seen old Leak and Quad amps in the background of several YouTube guitar tech channels. There is actually very little conceptual difference between say a Leak Stereo 20 and a Vox AC30. If you can work on one you can work on the other and schematics for both are in the public domain.

 

[Dodeth]

I have a 22 year-old Musical Fidelity XA-2 amp that I had refurbished by Arkless a few years ago. No complaints.

 

[earlofsodbury]

As Arkless mentioned earlier, the limiting factor for longevity is always going to be parts-availability - even through-hole parts are slowly disappearing, never mind ICs, transistors, lasers, &c.

Perhaps the single item whose longevity (and overall great build) surprised me most was a water-damaged late-60s Teleton (one of Panasonic's erstwhile European brands) integrated I found in a junk shop masquerading as an antiques emporium - one of those brick-shaped jobs from before everything became ~400mm wide. Its wooden case had that 'been-in-a-derelict-garage-for-50-years' look, but the fascia was spotless, and the rear panel only very slightly corroded, so I handed-over a £5er and took it home...

When I opened it up, the interior was absolutely mint, every switch and pot functioned perfectly, and the various electrolytics that I pulled to check were all 100% despite being >50 years old and probably unused for the last 40 of them! So I returned the pulls and left the rest in place, just retouched the solder joints, which was probably pointless, but did drive out a ton of nasty residue...

Cleaned it up, and a mate stripped, rubbed-down and Danish-oiled the case. It worked flawlessly on switch-on: no thumps, no warming-up, just a very pleasant, easy-going, forgiving sound. Can't imagine it was putting out much more than 15WPC, but it drove whatever I wired it to with ease, and barely even got warm, despite hanging its transistors out in the open air round the back.

Foolishly loaned it to a "friend" - never seen it again...