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Back to Basics - upgrading kit.

A

Alchad

Member
Morning and Merry Xmas.

Please have some Xmas spirit and cut me a little slack....

I'm long past collecting my pension so no doubt my hearing is not equivalent to a 20 year olds, my "hi-fi" kit consists of a Cambridge Azur 640H music server coupled to a Creek OBH 22 passive pre amp , a Quad 405 amp and a couple of Spendor BC 1's. The latter items owned for 40 odd years!

I was idly thinking of how I could change this system and found myself asking how to do it. My hi fi knowledge is limited, but in it's simplest, as I understand it with my present system the 640H rips a CD which is then stored on a internal hard drive and then played back though a DAC in the 640H to the Quad and speakers. I have the option to rip the CD losslessly, or other formats (320mps etc). If I elect the lossless option it does not affect the quality of the stored music and the only influence on quality is the DAC conversion before it reaches the amplifier and speakers?

My question - the 640H has a Wolfson WM8740 24/129kHz DAC which as I understand it was a pretty good DAC at the time, however if I junked the 640 H, bought one of todays best DAC's and simply used my PC to rip CD's losslessly to a external hard drive and then played this through the modern DAC to my Quad and Spendors - would I hear any improvement??

Really my second question is - if the answer to the above is "probably not", has hi-fi not really advanced in the past 40 years?

If I'm completely not understanding things, please explain.

Thanks

Alan C
 
If your files are lossless then the biggest upgrade would probably be to change speakers but that may well upset the whole thing. Unless you are unhappy with the sound I’d probably keep what you have.
 
Definitely make sure your files are lossless.

If you have a digital out from the CA, why not try an external DAC? If you buy used or new with a returns policy, you have nothing to lose. Beresford DAC’s are so cheap second hand and really superb.

Spendor BC1’s have a great reputation so not sure I’d change those.

Has the 405 been serviced? If not that would be a priority and Quad servicing is fantastic VFM. I’d not change the passive pre either as I have heard they work well with Quads. Maybe grab a 606 if you see one cheap?
 
Personally I would leave your ripping and playing as is, and just get the 405 serviced.
Having said that, if your 640H has digital out then take it along to a dealer/invite fishies round, and see what if anything an external DAC in your preferred price range brings to the party. For the most part modern DACs are about different flavours of sound/filters/facilities within each price bracket, <£500, <£1000, <£2000..........
If the 640H dies/becomes troublesome then by all means burn CDs with a PC and put on a NAS, but keep the PC away from replay duties.
To replay your rips grab something like a Wiim Pro + external DAC or Pro Plus if you want to keep it to one streaming box.
There are other options similar to your 640H (Innuos Zen Mini, Bluesound Vault) that will rip and internally store.
 
To more directly answer your question - the Azur is performing two functions currently, that of music server and DAC, although in reality the 'server' part is multiple processes, not just one. In truth the DAC is also - that being Digital to Analogue conversion and then an amplification stage to something around 4v (it may be higher).
The 'server' part is far more involved than people appreciate (which is why most people rather ignorantly assume that any old PC can be as good as even the most expensive dedicated music server).
To illustrate the point, you can easily rip music from CD or indeed download it from the internet (which is ostensibly the same as ripping - I know it's not but it's an analagous way of acquiring the data stream that is the music), to a hard drive, and you can do that using a PC and a decent bit of software, such as DB Poweramp, to create a bit perfect data stream, i.e. a copy of the music data from the CD that is exactly as good as (i.e. the same as) that on the CD.
But you still need a means by which that data set is selected for play by you the listener, retrieved from it's stored location, made ready to play, i.e. arranged with the correct timing information, and then handed off to the DAC for the DAC stage of the process.
You can use a PC to do all that but it's a massively sub optimal tool for that job - PCs are hugely noisely and their internal clocks aren't that good. A dedicated music server, such as you already have, does a much better job, but it could also be improved by a much better unit. Which of course involves spending money!
Improving the DAC is almost certainly the best way to maximise your investment - it will likely give you the biggest return (using the Azur as the music server still).
 
JezmondTutu said:
Beresford DAC’s are so cheap second hand and really superb.
Click to expand...
They're ok but off the pace yesterday. I've had three different Beresford DACs and the Rega DAC beats them all easily. And I doubt the REGA DAC is the best you can buy today. Or yesterday.
 
Merry Christmas to you sir.
It would be good to understand what you are looking to improve/change sound wise in your system.
The 640H has a decent dac but its sound signature may be a little shut in a lack the air & space that better sources can provide.
I’m not convinced a cheap dac will provide much more sound quality than what you have now but worth a try.
The passive pre will be bringing very little to the party which is exactly as it should be but that also means the source becomes very important.
Some find passive attenuation robs the sound of drive and muscularity.
You tend to get a bigger bolder sound when using an active pre.
Might be worth trying to hunt for the matching quad pre imo.
Have you tried ripping the same piece of music at 320 & lossless & listening for a difference?
Some hear a difference & some do not.
As Jez say’s definitely worth getting the 405 serviced if you have the funds to do so.
 
Alchad said:
My question - the 640H has a Wolfson WM8740 24/129kHz DAC which as I understand it was a pretty good DAC at the time, however if I junked the 640 H, bought one of todays best DAC's and simply used my PC to rip CD's losslessly to a external hard drive and then played this through the modern DAC to my Quad and Spendors - would I hear any improvement??
Click to expand...
could you clarify - have you already ripped CDs to the 640 and if so losslessly, or does that need to be done?

I agree with others that servicing the 405 makes sense.

Beyond that, are you doing any streaming? I’m thinking that the Wiim Pro Plus may make sense. It can play ripped files and stream. It has a better DAC than the pro and mini (don’t know anbout the 640) and doesn’t cost much more, and may cost less, than a basic standalone DAC. There’s a current thread with discussion For more info.
 
All, Many thanks for taking the time to reply, and also the quality of the replies.

Just to try and respond to some of the points raised.

1) Firstly just to clarify re the Cambridge Azur 640 H- I've a very big soft spot for them, I think they were ahead of their time and probably tried to do too much with it before technology and software were really ready. But, it/they are are really well engineered piece of kit. I have actually set up a Facebook Group intended to help people keep their 640's running and modifying them to change out the original hard drives to SSD's.

2) My original post was really prompted by the thought that since the 640H came out in 2007 technology must have moved on a fair bit and what could I get to do the same function it did - namely ripping, storing and passing a high quality signal to an amplifier. Having done a not very detailed search I admit, I got the impression that "streaming" was now THE thing and what I was looking for didn't really exist - although I see that someone suggested the Zen kit, which might do it, but seems expensive.

3) What am I trying to achieve - well to be honest, it's winter and I'm a little bored and my thought turned to my hi fi and perhaps moving on from the kit I had, but realising that moving on meant probably considerable outlay, I was hoping this would be matched by an improvement performance (if not by my ears then more discerning ones - if you can see the logic?)

4) Re the Quad 405 and getting it serviced. I did have an upgrade by Dada Electronics quite a few years back. Don't remember what exactly was done, but would it have been something to do with replacing some large capacitors?? I have had in the back of my mind upgrading the 405 to a 405 Mk 2, or even a 606 - both of which which I understand do offer some improvement over the 405 Mk 1. This conversation/post has me leaning more and more towards this option and I'd probably prefer to try and buy one in the hope it's in good condition and if necessary spend the money on getting the new amp serviced rather than on the existing 405.

5) Re the suggestion of getting a 44 pre-amp. I actually did have one but sold it and bought the Creek OBH - I have to admit the reason I did this was the fact it had a remote control and whenever I listened to music with my other half there were often occasions when her sensitive ears required the sound to be turned down, a remote seemed a good way of avoiding arguments and saving me constantly getting out of my chair😊. My understanding at the time was that with the higher output voltage(?) from the 640H a preamp such as the Quad 44 wasn't really necessary. Please correct me if this is incorrect.

Once again, thanks for the replies.

Alan C
 
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