Ayrton Senna 1960 - 1994
- Thread starter Musicraft
- Start date
TheDecameron
Unicorns fart glitter.
Wonder if the biopic will be shown to mark the anniversary?
Moggi1964
Active Member
Ruthless and talented! Quite the combination.
A sad loss.
In my signature on the Triumph motorbiike forum I am on I have this and it certainly applies to Senna:
"To do something well is so worthwhile that to die trying to do it better cannot be foolhardy. It would be a waste of life to do nothing with one's ability, for I feel that life is measured in achievement, not in years alone."
Bruce McLaren
A sad loss.
In my signature on the Triumph motorbiike forum I am on I have this and it certainly applies to Senna:
"To do something well is so worthwhile that to die trying to do it better cannot be foolhardy. It would be a waste of life to do nothing with one's ability, for I feel that life is measured in achievement, not in years alone."
Bruce McLaren
Enfield boy
pfm Member
McLaren was a wonderful example to all racers.
Eyebroughty
JohnC
Some links from the BBC
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/av/formula1/48115498
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/48093513
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/av/formula1/48115498
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/48093513
Tony Lockhart
Avoiding Stress, at Every Opportunity
Next year
joel
Painter of Dragons, Maker of Mirrors
Doh! Even at 59 it's still quite strange to contemplate.
tones
Tones deaf
While I admired the man's undoubted sublime talent, I was never really a fan - the ruthless, win-at-all-costs mentality never appealed to me (I feel much the same way about Michael Schumacher). Perhaps that's a reflection of advancing years - I started following motor sport in a more gentlemanly age. Can you imagine Senna or Schumacher getting the disqualification of a major rival overturned, thereby losing the world championship?
http://www.espn.com/f1/story/_/id/2...manship-cost-stirling-moss-world-championship
Autosport has a good perspective on the verging-on-idolatrous cult that has grown around Senna:
https://www.autosport.com/f1/feature/9092/the-problems-with-the-senna-cult
To quote one part for non-subscribers:
And what of Suzuka 1990, where Senna took umbrage when his demand that pole position be moved to the other side of the track was not acted upon, and then deliberately hit Prost at 160mph on the first lap.
Much later Ayrton would, in private, concede this darkly premeditated act wasn't his finest hour.
In the immediate aftermath, though, he tried to brazen it out, and his post-race interview with Sir Jackie Stewart has rightly become the stuff of legend. To my mind only Lance Armstrong has in subsequent years come close to matching Senna's look of sullen, cold fury as his interrogator picked apart the stream of platitudinous cant with which he sought to deny or justify his actions.
Thus, a brilliant driver, but even more full of himself than F1 drivers usually are. I do love the story about Patrick Tambay pulling Senna's leg by saying, at a time when Senna was powered by Renault, that they could be team mates the following season. Senna nearly had a seizure - "But you are FRENCH!!!!! They will give you better engines!" Tambay had extreme difficulty keeping a straight face.
http://www.espn.com/f1/story/_/id/2...manship-cost-stirling-moss-world-championship
Autosport has a good perspective on the verging-on-idolatrous cult that has grown around Senna:
https://www.autosport.com/f1/feature/9092/the-problems-with-the-senna-cult
To quote one part for non-subscribers:
And what of Suzuka 1990, where Senna took umbrage when his demand that pole position be moved to the other side of the track was not acted upon, and then deliberately hit Prost at 160mph on the first lap.
Much later Ayrton would, in private, concede this darkly premeditated act wasn't his finest hour.
In the immediate aftermath, though, he tried to brazen it out, and his post-race interview with Sir Jackie Stewart has rightly become the stuff of legend. To my mind only Lance Armstrong has in subsequent years come close to matching Senna's look of sullen, cold fury as his interrogator picked apart the stream of platitudinous cant with which he sought to deny or justify his actions.
Thus, a brilliant driver, but even more full of himself than F1 drivers usually are. I do love the story about Patrick Tambay pulling Senna's leg by saying, at a time when Senna was powered by Renault, that they could be team mates the following season. Senna nearly had a seizure - "But you are FRENCH!!!!! They will give you better engines!" Tambay had extreme difficulty keeping a straight face.
Tony Lockhart
Avoiding Stress, at Every Opportunity
I doubt very much that one or two 'gentlemanly' anecdotes mean that at times drivers didn't play a little dirty to win a race or championship.
The difference now, obviously, is the money and commitment. In the 60s the factory teams were tiny, just a handful of people, with only a handful of races to commit to.
Now its hundreds of millions of dollars and hundreds of people, with twenty races or so each season.
Senna had sixteen races, lots of testing, and a whole life of appearances for the fans, media and corporations.
It's very, very different now, but if you want something like the old days, just go and watch some club racing. Chilled, great access to drivers and cars, cheap tickets, no ego battles. And hopefully no tv cameras!
The difference now, obviously, is the money and commitment. In the 60s the factory teams were tiny, just a handful of people, with only a handful of races to commit to.
Now its hundreds of millions of dollars and hundreds of people, with twenty races or so each season.
Senna had sixteen races, lots of testing, and a whole life of appearances for the fans, media and corporations.
It's very, very different now, but if you want something like the old days, just go and watch some club racing. Chilled, great access to drivers and cars, cheap tickets, no ego battles. And hopefully no tv cameras!
tones
Tones deaf
I didn't mean that the past was pristine, Tony - certainly Fangio had no hesitation in pulling rank and commandeering someone else's car when it suited him. As you say, the vast amount of money poured into the sport as a result of Bernie Ecclestone's commercial acumen (and of course Colin Chapman's pioneering use of cars as advertising billboards) has changed everything, and it ultimately gave rise to a very American "winning isn't everything, it's the only thing" mentality. Or, as A.J. Foyt famously put it, nice guys finish last. Perhaps he never met Jim Clark... Perhaps this is just this old guy with an old-fashioned idea of fairness. Not quite Flanders & Swann in A song of patriotic prejudice:
And all the world over, each nation's the same,
They've simply no notion of playing the game
They argue with umpires, they cheer when they've won
AND THEY PRACTISE BEFOREHAND! Which ruins the fun!
And all the world over, each nation's the same,
They've simply no notion of playing the game
They argue with umpires, they cheer when they've won
AND THEY PRACTISE BEFOREHAND! Which ruins the fun!
Tony Lockhart
Avoiding Stress, at Every Opportunity
The thing for me is, F1 had only existed for less than twenty years before advertising came in, and another fifty years has passed since. Similar with most sport over the world.
Also, until the 90s, reliability was a big issue. Drivers had to nurse their cars through races, especially if they were in a Lotus. Now? Most teams have next to no failures each year, maybe two or three? That must breed a different approach too.
I’ve said before in threads about Senna. I had no time for him until Donington ‘93. Well worth getting soaked to see a genius destroy everyone else, and for me to recognise that genius.
Funny ol’ game, motorsport.
Also, until the 90s, reliability was a big issue. Drivers had to nurse their cars through races, especially if they were in a Lotus. Now? Most teams have next to no failures each year, maybe two or three? That must breed a different approach too.
I’ve said before in threads about Senna. I had no time for him until Donington ‘93. Well worth getting soaked to see a genius destroy everyone else, and for me to recognise that genius.
Funny ol’ game, motorsport.
Rack Kit
pfm Member
Prost had Jean Marie Balestre in his pocket and doing his best to help him win a WC, that was what Senna was up against. And don’t forget it was Prost who drove into Senna at the chicane the year before to secure his WC. The ‘professor’ had his own dark side.
Musicraft
Trade: Musicraft
Same here.
Musicraft
Trade: Musicraft
He punched Eddie Irvine at the 1993 Japanese GP after the race because Irvine unlapped himself causing Senna to slow down.