Auriol Grey cycling manslaughter conviction overturned

[Puggie]

Sad situation. IMHO a huge issue is the underfunded councils confusing splashing a can of paint around as a means of creating a cycle infrastructure. Pavements are for people, roads are for cars and bikes, it would be very nice if the car bit of road and the bike bit were sensibly segregated and fit for purpose, but they rarely are.

If you start putting bikes on pavements it becomes unclear and an unintuitive as to who should be where. Then accidents happen.

 

[Pravda]

The bike charity where I volunteer does bike awareness courses. One local haulier requires all its drivers to attend. It's very successful, the only time it backfires is when a driver is also a keen cyclist. One tutor tells a tale of a guy pulling a trackstand in a slow speed manoeuvring test. Because he could, just for fun.

Three of the schools me dad was caretaker at used to offer cycle training after school
I've not noticed that, around here


. Blinking good idea all the same

 

[clivem2]

I’m always very careful to overtake cyclists with space and care. I too cycle. It’s easy to understand the frustrations of car drivers in s9me cases. Yesterday we were driving back from our daughter’s house, there were more than 30 cars behind behind a single cyclist. The road is a wonderful country journey and some cyclists push it so don’t hold up cars too much but others are really slow, as was the case yesterday. No one did anything daft but there must have been a lot of frustration across many people. I don’t know how we can fix this, some roads are magnets for cyclists and of course they have rights to them.

Personally I feel vulnerable when on a bike so I tend to ride on a road to reach a cycle friendly route - usually a disused railway line.

Ultimately bikes and pedestrians or cars don’t mix well in some, but not all situations.

 

[nmtjb]

Cycling in Britain is a really bad idea for most, and I can't see that changing in my lifetime (I'm 64). After years of commuting (daily) in all weathers, and for leisure when the sun is out, I've now decided its just too dangerous, both in the city and countryside.

The perpetrator in this case is clearly scary and abusive, no physical contact would be needed to make the poor cyclist want to avoid her at all costs. I also feel very sorry for the motorist that killed her.

There's been a couple of cyclist related stories pushed through the media this week and last and there's only a few of the other 'usual' news items more guaranteed to get the ham boiling than cyclists behaving badly, a convenient diversion from more important national issues and government failings IMO.

 

[vince rocker]

There is nothing anti-cyclist about expecting all people to be treated equally. The fact you feel so, and the fact you consider my post a rant, says a lot more about you and your attitude than it does about me.

You're right, I don't expect people to be treated equally. I expect equality of outcomes, that all people can use the road safely. But not all road users are the same. Cyclists, pedestrians, horse riders, wheelchair users, motorcyclists are far more vulnerable than a driver protected by a big tin box using infrastructure designed to prioritise their existence. So it is not valid to treat all road users"equally".

 

[Somafunk]

The bike charity where I volunteer does bike awareness courses. One local haulier requires all its drivers to attend. It's very successful, the only time it backfires is when a driver is also a keen cyclist. One tutor tells a tale of a guy pulling a trackstand in a slow speed manoeuvring test. Because he could, just for fun.

Have to admit i did similar back in 2006 on my SMBLA (Scottish mtb leader award/mtb guiding qualification for this country/abroad) with Rich and Craig of Cyclewise, they said to everyone "we're going to have a slow race, last one to cross the line wins". So at the whistle I stood up and straight into a trackstand.

One of the benefits of being able to ride fixed gear is trackstand skills.

 

[Mike Hughes]

I think all car drivers should complete, a bike proficiency test, giving them the experience of how vulnerable a cyclist or motorbike rider are.
It's a broad brush statement I know, but if you've never been on a bike, how do you know.

There are a sight more pedestrians than there are cyclists and whilst I agree with your suggestion I think seeing things from the perspective of various pedestrians is as valuable. As a sight-impaired pedestrian (and off road cyclist) I remain staggered at how little motorists and cyclists know. Here’s a clue. Flashing your lights to let me know I can cross is naff all use. Equally, having a cane does not mean I am blind.

 

[Pravda]

There are a sight more pedestrians than there are cyclists and whilst I agree with your suggestion I think seeing things from the perspective of various pedestrians is as valuable. As a sight-impaired pedestrian (and off road cyclist) I remain staggered at how little motorists and cyclists know. Here’s a clue. Flashing your lights to let me know I can cross is naff all use. Equally, having a cane does not mean I am blind.

People only see what they want, (sorry thats not a pun) and they forget that there are people out there, that need the extra consideration. I myself, have fallen foul of this in my younger years.
I had the occasion to ferry a blind lady, to a beaver meeting that my wife was organising as a cub leader. We were driving down a country lane when I had to brake hard to avoid a swan crossing the road. As an idiot I said nothing, she said, "What was that?".

A light flickered in my stupid bonce, and I realised, I should have been her eyes. I explained what happened and she was delighted. The journey home was beautiful.
Sometimes you need to be reminded, its not all about you.

 

[Woodface]

The proof is there with Amsterdam, thanks, but reading further down the page it would appear the German's aren't so keen to put on their Lycra.
What does British exceptionalism mean, your post reeked of racism as far as I am concerned, and I'm certainly not racist.

This has nothing to do with lycra!

 

[Woodface]

What drivers don't realise when they talk about being treated 'equally' is that actually everything is geared to the car! You've won.

As a cyclist I just want some of what cars have. Decent infrastructure, joined up safe spaces for cycling, some basic courtesy from people ensconced in two tonnes of metal. This thread has shown is how utterly ignorant people are, especially those not involved in active travel, seriously, its lovely out there go for a walk, get fit, extend your healthy life span. Appreciate that some are not able to do this.

The alternative? Keep obsessing about cables & purple fuses, write hate filled nonsense on here?#'

 

[Woodface]

I’m always very careful to overtake cyclists with space and care. I too cycle. It’s easy to understand the frustrations of car drivers in s9me cases. Yesterday we were driving back from our daughter’s house, there were more than 30 cars behind behind a single cyclist. The road is a wonderful country journey and some cyclists push it so don’t hold up cars too much but others are really slow, as was the case yesterday. No one did anything daft but there must have been a lot of frustration across many people. I don’t know how we can fix this, some roads are magnets for cyclists and of course they have rights to them.

Personally I feel vulnerable when on a bike so I tend to ride on a road to reach a cycle friendly route - usually a disused railway line.

Ultimately bikes and pedestrians or cars don’t mix well in some, but not all situations.

This is a really interesting observation. Allow me to challenge the thinking here. It is the 30 cars rather than the loan cyclist that is causing the congestion. It's really great being able to cycle in the Peak District, for example, I will see fellow cyclists, people on motorbikes, people in cars, its an area of outstanding natural beauty, why can't we just enjoy it rather than having to rush? If you are in a rush to get somewhere, there are often alternative routes.

When a car cannot pass a cyclist safely it is generally other cars that are preventing this, particularly on narrow country roads.

I thank you for your consideration, this post is not in any way a criticism just an observation of how we can fall into 'groupthink'.

 

[Ginger]

This is a really interesting observation. Allow me to challenge the thinking here. It is the 30 cars rather than the loan cyclist that is causing the congestion. It's really great being able to cycle in the Peak District, for example, I will see fellow cyclists, people on motorbikes, people in cars, its an area of outstanding natural beauty, why can't we just enjoy it rather than having to rush? If you are in a rush to get somewhere, there are often alternative routes.

When a car cannot pass a cyclist safely it is generally other cars that are preventing this, particularly on narrow country roads.

I thank you for your consideration, this post is not in any way a criticism just an observation of how we can fall into 'groupthink'.

I dare say I'd be a little frustrated in a queue of 30, but in this scenario (as opposed to any other traffic jam) we can see someone to blame.

Clivem2 does say that its easy to understand the frustration and isn't blaming the cyclist - nor would I, but I also cycle and think I also have a responsibility to show reasonable consideration for other road users. So if I'm holding up traffic I'll stop and get out of the way. Safer for me and as I say, shows a little easy consideration.

'Groupthink'. Yes indeed. Isn't that what the revisions to the road users hierarchy aims to address?

 

[clivem2]

This is a really interesting observation. Allow me to challenge the thinking here. It is the 30 cars rather than the loan cyclist that is causing the congestion. It's really great being able to cycle in the Peak District, for example, I will see fellow cyclists, people on motorbikes, people in cars, its an area of outstanding natural beauty, why can't we just enjoy it rather than having to rush? If you are in a rush to get somewhere, there are often alternative routes.

When a car cannot pass a cyclist safely it is generally other cars that are preventing this, particularly on narrow country roads.

I thank you for your consideration, this post is not in any way a criticism just an observation of how we can fall into 'groupthink'.

On the road in question it wasn’t other cars preventing overtaking, it’s that the road is very twisty resulting in very few safe overtaking opportunities.

There were plenty of opportunities for the loan cyclist to pull off the road to let the cars behind past, it would have been a thoughtful courtesy but it’s not a big deal, maybe the individual was knackered and it was all he could do to focus on keeping going. Usually I end up doing near 20mph behind cyclists on that road, which isn’t bad but in this case 20mph was not remotely viable. I’m generally quite a chilled driver, the situation didn’t get me het up, I just accepted it and bided my time to pass safely (eventually in the next village).

 

[AndyU]

There are single track roads all over Scotland, with passing places, and signs which say “Please use passing places to permit overtaking”. And that’s the expectation. There’s no need to slow anyone down unnecessarily, let alone a whole trail of cars, whether you are on a bike, pulling a caravan, driving a tractor, or going slow to enjoy the view. Let folk pass. That guy in the white van wants to get his work over and get back home.

 

[Woodface]

On the road in question it wasn’t other cars preventing overtaking, it’s that the road is very twisty resulting in very few safe overtaking opportunities.

There were plenty of opportunities for the loan cyclist to pull off the road to let the cars behind past, it would have been a thoughtful courtesy but it’s not a big deal, maybe the individual was knackered and it was all he could do to focus on keeping going. Usually I end up doing near 20mph behind cyclists on that road, which isn’t bad but in this case 20mph was not remotely viable. I’m generally quite a chilled driver, the situation didn’t get me het up, I just accepted it and bided my time to pass safely (eventually in the next village).

My point is that the cars are causing the congestion as there are more of them, it's akin to blaming a bus or other slow moving traffic. If I'm going up a steep hill there is no way I will pull over, I'd never get clipped back in & would lose all my momentum. It's the tacit entitlement of people when they get behind a wheel that needs to be called out.

I cycle around Strines Moor in Sheffield, the roads are narrow & steep in places, cars in a hurry can use the A57 to get there quicker if they choose. Its getting to the point where nowhere is ok for cyclists: paths, shared spaces, country lanes, main roads, city centres etc etc. & yes, I don't cycle on the pavement.

 

[Woodface]

There are single track roads all over Scotland, with passing places, and signs which say “Please use passing places to permit overtaking”. And that’s the expectation. There’s no need to slow anyone down unnecessarily, let alone a whole trail of cars, whether you are on a bike, pulling a caravan, driving a tractor, or going slow to enjoy the view. Let folk pass. That guy in the white van wants to get his work over and get back home.

If there is a proper passing space I would pull in, if safe to do so, I also signal to cars behind when the road is clear for them to overtake; I often have a better view than they do. Lets not think that its ok to put people at risk just to get home a little quicker. Cars do not have priority.

 

[clivem2]

My point is that the cars are causing the congestion as there are more of them, it's akin to blaming a bus or other slow moving traffic. If I'm going up a steep hill there is no way I will pull over, I'd never get clipped back in & would lose all my momentum. It's the tacit entitlement of people when they get behind a wheel that needs to be called out.

I cycle around Strines Moor in Sheffield, the roads are narrow & steep in places, cars in a hurry can use the A57 to get there quicker if they choose. Its getting to the point where nowhere is ok for cyclists: paths, shared spaces, country lanes, main roads, city centres etc etc. & yes, I don't cycle on the pavement.

So in essence you’re saying your journey is more important than those who are driving a car…because they are driving a car. My journey wasn’t for pleasure, I’d been helping our daughter renovating her house. I would assume that many of the other drivers in the queue were returning home from work. I’m guessing the cyclist was also returning from work so he had a good reason to be on the road too, he certainly wasn’t riding a flash bike or in special bike gear.

If you are concerned about clipping back into your pedals then maybe it’s not a great idea to use the clips if they influence whether you are prepared to stop.

I can’t see it working in reality but who knows…sometimes I think the road in question the cyclist magnet roads to Knutsford could have time slots where it’s for cyclists only, maybe with pedestrians too. The road isn’t hilly aside from a few railway bridges so pulling over going up a hill isn’t an issue. Actually it’s better in general to pullover on the brow of a hill or on the way down, whichever is safer. It’s an old “rule of the road” that you give way to the vehicle that is going to struggle more with a hill. Usually this meant giving way to a car or truck going up a steep hill when you are going down the hill but I’d interpret this for cycling as not expecting a cyclist to stop going uphill.

It’s up to all of us to be courteous and to not act entitled. A bit of empathy by everyone goes a long way.

 

[Woodface]

So in essence you’re saying your journey is more important than those who are driving a car…because they are driving a car. My journey wasn’t for pleasure, I’d been helping our daughter renovating her house. I would assume that many of the other drivers in the queue were returning home from work. I’m guessing the cyclist was also returning from work so he had a good reason to be on the road too, he certainly wasn’t riding a flash bike or in special bike gear.

If you are concerned about clipping back into your pedals then maybe it’s not a great idea to use the clips if they influence whether you are prepared to stop.

I can’t see it working in reality but who knows…sometimes I think the road in question the cyclist magnet roads to Knutsford could have time slots where it’s for cyclists only, maybe with pedestrians too. The road isn’t hilly aside from a few railway bridges so pulling over going up a hill isn’t an issue. Actually it’s better in general to pullover on the brow of a hill or on the way down, whichever is safer. It’s an old “rule of the road” that you give way to the vehicle that is going to struggle more with a hill. Usually this meant giving way to a car or truck going up a steep hill when you are going down the hill but I’d interpret this for cycling as not expecting a cyclist to stop going uphill.

It’s up to all of us to be courteous and to not act entitled. A bit of empathy by everyone goes a long way.

My journey is as important, that’s the point. Cars should simply pass when it is safe to do so. It is other cars that prevent over taking as they are coming in the opposite direction.

I clip in as I ride a really nice road bike, in the Peak District on an evening & at weekends.

The lack of empathy is not on my side that’s for sure. A lack of empathy is generally from motorists who out my life at risk to close pass. If you do the maths the delays are minimal in terms of the overall journey; half the time I end up catching them up as they just get stuck in the next jam.

Anyway let’s agree to differ.

 

[stevec67]

So in essence you’re saying your journey is more important than those who are driving a car…because they are driving a car. My journey wasn’t for pleasure, I’d been helping our daughter renovating her house. I would assume that many of the other drivers in the queue were returning home from work. I’m guessing the cyclist was also returning from work so he had a good reason to be on the road too, he certainly wasn’t riding a flash bike or in special bike gear.

If you are concerned about clipping back into your pedals then maybe it’s not a great idea to use the clips if they influence whether you are prepared to stop.

I can’t see it working in reality but who knows…sometimes I think the road in question the cyclist magnet roads to Knutsford could have time slots where it’s for cyclists only, maybe with pedestrians too. The road isn’t hilly aside from a few railway bridges so pulling over going up a hill isn’t an issue. Actually it’s better in general to pullover on the brow of a hill or on the way down, whichever is safer. It’s an old “rule of the road” that you give way to the vehicle that is going to struggle more with a hill. Usually this meant giving way to a car or truck going up a steep hill when you are going down the hill but I’d interpret this for cycling as not expecting a cyclist to stop going uphill.

It’s up to all of us to be courteous and to not act entitled. A bit of empathy by everyone goes a long way.

No, he's saying that as a road user he has the same rights as any other road user. You however appear to imply that your journey is more important than his, because you had just been to see your daughter. It's not. If your journey is more important than anyone else, you get a blue light. If not, you don't.

 

[Seeker_UK]

If your journey is more important than anyone else, you get a blue light. If not, you don't.

If your journey is more important than anyone lese, you get blue lights and one of these: