Audiocom Superclock
- Thread starter mcai7et2
- Start date
linedriver
Never-Connected Member
Yes, but the Audiocom clock is only worth £60
Either you want cheap, or you want true performance for a sensible price?
You pays your money, and takes your choice I supose!
Either you want cheap, or you want true performance for a sensible price?
You pays your money, and takes your choice I supose!
fatcat
pfm Member
Colin
I must say your idea of true performance for a sensible price seems very strange. The price of a Trichord Clock 4 and the never connected power supply comes too nearly £325.00. The price of the AAA5 mod is £375.0, would adding a TC4 and NCS to an AA5 be as good as an AAA5.
I have a Rotel 965 Discrete, an old, mid priced player. I believe adding the TC4 and NCS to this player would not be a huge improvement over the audiocom clock for £60.00. I am certain I could spend the £265.00 I have saved on improving power supplies, caps, resistors etc. and end up with a far better player.
You may have a system of such quality where the TC4 is a huge improvement. But I would say most people do not.
At £60.00 audiocom clock is a bargain. Dont forget 12 months ago it was worth £160.00. In a couple of years the TC4 will only be worth £60.00. An item is only worth the amount somebody is prepared to pay for it.
I must say your idea of true performance for a sensible price seems very strange. The price of a Trichord Clock 4 and the never connected power supply comes too nearly £325.00. The price of the AAA5 mod is £375.0, would adding a TC4 and NCS to an AA5 be as good as an AAA5.
I have a Rotel 965 Discrete, an old, mid priced player. I believe adding the TC4 and NCS to this player would not be a huge improvement over the audiocom clock for £60.00. I am certain I could spend the £265.00 I have saved on improving power supplies, caps, resistors etc. and end up with a far better player.
You may have a system of such quality where the TC4 is a huge improvement. But I would say most people do not.
At £60.00 audiocom clock is a bargain. Dont forget 12 months ago it was worth £160.00. In a couple of years the TC4 will only be worth £60.00. An item is only worth the amount somebody is prepared to pay for it.
linedriver
Never-Connected Member
Fatcat,
I'm sure the Audiocom makes a great upgrade for £60, and that I'm not disputing, but £325 on a clock 4 with NC Supply+ a few qiud on op-amps, caps etc can transform a £200 CDP into something in the league of a £2K player. Now that is value for money in my books.
I'm not going to be drawn into the AAA5 vs Clock 4, because Les has taken a totally different approcah on the old Alpha 5 that produces a truely remarkable result. However, pehapse you would like to hear one of Les's own AAA5 of that I have here.... with a clock 4 in it.
Regards,
Colin
I'm sure the Audiocom makes a great upgrade for £60, and that I'm not disputing, but £325 on a clock 4 with NC Supply+ a few qiud on op-amps, caps etc can transform a £200 CDP into something in the league of a £2K player. Now that is value for money in my books.
I'm not going to be drawn into the AAA5 vs Clock 4, because Les has taken a totally different approcah on the old Alpha 5 that produces a truely remarkable result. However, pehapse you would like to hear one of Les's own AAA5 of that I have here.... with a clock 4 in it.
Regards,
Colin
linedriver
Never-Connected Member
Rusty, You've missed an "A" off of AA5..... this IS a modified Alpha, and yes, you are correct, the stock item is totally crap, but then so are most CD players, thats why the likes of Les, ALW and myself have thriving businesses
ron
Tweaker
Me and my Uncle have highly modified an Arcam Alpha 5+ and have added a Net Audio Rock clock, the player now sounds so good I would compare it against any commercial cdp available.
Just adding the Rock clock to a standard AA5 makes it very bright though.
It would be interesting to compare some of these better clock circuits
Just adding the Rock clock to a standard AA5 makes it very bright though.
It would be interesting to compare some of these better clock circuits
Kit Taylor
Well-Known Member
I'm curious about this as I've just started fiddling about with my Monarchy Audio 33C DAC. How does one power these things?
fatcat
pfm Member
Richard
IMO it is well worth the money. When you consider not long ago they where £160.00.
In my system the improvements where quite subtle. The way the system sounds did not change much, although I found change/improvements to be CD dependant, but it was playing the music a lot more coherently, improved timing and more weight to instruments such as bass and piano. At the moment my speakers are positioned in such away that they do not do soundstage, so I cannot comment on improvements in this area.
I remember that you have improved the regs in your CD player. You may find greater improvements than I have with my previously unmodified player.
If you are thinking of buying one, before you bid, ask the seller a question. Does the price include silver link up cable. He told me not usually but he said he would supply some.
PS
I am sorted with my BNC plugs, one of the service engineers at work gave me a pair. They look like they are for larger cable than I have, but I will sort it out.
The bad news is the op Amps I bought at the same time are the wrong type, I should have ordered dual not single.
IMO it is well worth the money. When you consider not long ago they where £160.00.
In my system the improvements where quite subtle. The way the system sounds did not change much, although I found change/improvements to be CD dependant, but it was playing the music a lot more coherently, improved timing and more weight to instruments such as bass and piano. At the moment my speakers are positioned in such away that they do not do soundstage, so I cannot comment on improvements in this area.
I remember that you have improved the regs in your CD player. You may find greater improvements than I have with my previously unmodified player.
If you are thinking of buying one, before you bid, ask the seller a question. Does the price include silver link up cable. He told me not usually but he said he would supply some.
PS
I am sorted with my BNC plugs, one of the service engineers at work gave me a pair. They look like they are for larger cable than I have, but I will sort it out.
The bad news is the op Amps I bought at the same time are the wrong type, I should have ordered dual not single.
linedriver
Never-Connected Member
Hi Kit,
In a two box system, the clock is fitted into the trasport, not the DAC.
I'm sure there is still plenty more that can be done with the DAC though
Regards,
Colin
In a two box system, the clock is fitted into the trasport, not the DAC.
I'm sure there is still plenty more that can be done with the DAC though
Regards,
Colin
Andrew L Weekes
Reverse Engineer
This is true, but it's the wrong way to do it, from an engineering and jitter perspective.
It's far more important that the clock is as close to the DAC as is possible, preferably closer, since jitter is only significantly relevant at the point of conversion. Most DAC's use a receiver chip to recover a clock, using a PLL, that is then fed to it's DAC, along with the recovered data.
If you fit the clock to the DAC, you can then feed the clock back to the transport, to slave it and keep it in sync, but this only works if the transport has the same clock speed as the DAC.
You can also engineer schemes if one is an integer multiple of the other.
In fact, if using an external DAC that recovers a clock from the incoming SPDIF data, I'd not bother to put an expensive clock into the transport - it would be wasted, IMHO.
Andy.
linedriver
Never-Connected Member
Andy says:
"In fact, if using an external DAC that recovers a clock from the incoming SPDIF data, I'd not bother to put an expensive clock into the transport - it would be wasted, IMHO."
In theory, yes, but in practice a decent clock can still make a huge difference even when the DAC derives it's clock from the SPDIF.
Try it, you will be surprised, theory isn't always so cut and dried.
Regards,
Colin
"In fact, if using an external DAC that recovers a clock from the incoming SPDIF data, I'd not bother to put an expensive clock into the transport - it would be wasted, IMHO."
In theory, yes, but in practice a decent clock can still make a huge difference even when the DAC derives it's clock from the SPDIF.
Try it, you will be surprised, theory isn't always so cut and dried.
Regards,
Colin
Ok, after deciding that the tranny on my diy PSU is dead I gave up on that route (for now) and hooked the clock to the same unregulated supply on the CD player that the previous clock used.
From cold, I can hear encouraging things. The player is getting more detail out of disks than it did with the clock 2, so I have left it on repeat all day to see what happens.
Can anyone tell me the difference a PSU upgrade will make to this? It is something I am keen to do, if it will make a big difference (I have built a simple LM317 reg circuit, but it needs a new Transformer).
Cheers,
Ed
From cold, I can hear encouraging things. The player is getting more detail out of disks than it did with the clock 2, so I have left it on repeat all day to see what happens.
Can anyone tell me the difference a PSU upgrade will make to this? It is something I am keen to do, if it will make a big difference (I have built a simple LM317 reg circuit, but it needs a new Transformer).
Cheers,
Ed
I replaced the fixed reg feeding the clock on my AA5 with an LM317 circuit and there was a worthwhile improvement.
I've since fitted an external psu for the whole audio board and again a worthwhile improvement to detail retrieval, bass weight etc.
I might now separate the supply to the clock from the other supplies on the board and see what that does
Tim
I've since fitted an external psu for the whole audio board and again a worthwhile improvement to detail retrieval, bass weight etc.
I might now separate the supply to the clock from the other supplies on the board and see what that does
Tim
Andrew L Weekes
Reverse Engineer
Yes, my original post didn't clearly express my view.
The sensitivity of the DAC to incoming jitter would be a factor, but I strongly suspect that the best clock solution available, in the transport, could be outperformed by a worse clock well-implemented at the DAC end, hence my comment about 'waste'.
Practicality rears its ugly head here though, as does the often difficult to correlate theory / measurement vs. sonic reward, so I'd bow to those with greater experience of both solutions!
I know better than to make categorical statements, based solely on theory, as my recent experience with an M-Audio Superdac illustrated nicely
A.
Kit Taylor
Well-Known Member
Thanks for the feedback. The Monarchy Audio 33C has some jitter reduction circuitry with a plain old oscillator thingy I was thinking of replacing. I think I'll have a fiddle with the rest of DAC first. Sounds a bit tricky this clock malarkey.
Incidentally, the unit is apparently still on special offer at $719, not bad considering you get a preamp with two analogue inputs aswell as a pretty plush dac. It sounds a little pale and lacking in texture and colour, but it's very big, clean and exciting. A very "american" sound, white bread blandness meets crushing force, a more appealing combination than it perhaps sounds. Wonder what a few mods might unleash?
Incidentally, the unit is apparently still on special offer at $719, not bad considering you get a preamp with two analogue inputs aswell as a pretty plush dac. It sounds a little pale and lacking in texture and colour, but it's very big, clean and exciting. A very "american" sound, white bread blandness meets crushing force, a more appealing combination than it perhaps sounds. Wonder what a few mods might unleash?