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Audio Technica on the Naim Aro

S

Simon s

pfm Member
Hi All,

I am finally gonna have a go at mounting my Naim Aro on the Technics as its something i have wanted to do for a long time but i am aware that the ideal Cartridge stylus to mounting bolt distance is around 7 -10mm for the fixed mounting holes on the arm ? (please correct me if i am wrong here?)

I would like to use the following cartridges to try - the Audio Technica 540ML, possibly Audio Technica ART 9 Nagaoka MP500 and possibly the Denon DL103.

So my questions are as follows: 1. What are the Cart stylus to mounting bolt distance of those cartridges ?

I have been told that Audio technica carts are not ideal as they are between 10-11mm and the Nag is also around 10mm, but i am not 100 percent on this.

2. How critical is the stylus to mounting bolt distance in reality ? I asked Peter swain at Cymbiosis and he said that for example the Audio Technica ART 9 works just fine on the Aro. Is this because its within the 7-10mm range of the Aro or the specs are different for that cartridge. Its not helped by the fact that these figures are not readily available.

3. If the spec of these carts falls outside of the 7-10mm range then can i just adjust the spindle to pivot distance when setting up the arm ? Would i need to extend it to compensate for the Cart stylus to mounting bolt distance ?

Maybe someone here has tried this already and can shed some light here as i don't want to mess this up !

Thanks
 
Gosh I can’t help but as an Aro owner, I’m interested to see how this develops!

My friend with his Technics as of yesterday, he is very happy.

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Simon s said:
2. How critical is the stylus to mounting bolt distance in reality ?
Click to expand...
Not especially. It increases or decreases the effective length, but if as an experiment you fit a cartridge in an arm with slots with the difference varying by a mm or two you can measure the geometry difference with your protractor. Or draw 2 circles, one with a radius 2 or 3 mm bigger, and then add the cartridgeover the width of the record playing surface. In the ideal world the cartridge would be parallel at both ends. It can't be, it's running on a curve, so you are using a compromise. But having the circle a mm or 2 further across? Forget it, the protractor and your eyes aren't that good,

3. If the spec of these carts falls outside of the 7-10mm range then can i just adjust the spindle to pivot distance when setting up the arm ?
Click to expand...
Yes you can. If your cartridge effectively makes the arm longer then you can slide the arm back by the appropriate amount. The thing that counts is the arc described by the stylus, and this is purely a function of the position of the arm base, the length of the arm and the stylus overhang. So if your stylus overhang should be 8mm and it's 10, you have effectively made the arm 2mm longer. In practice this will make a gnat's hair difference to the geometry but moving the arm back 2mm ought to correct the difference. You can check this with your protractor. If the protractor tells you that the cart is aligned at the start and end of the record groove, you are done. How you get there is neither here nor there, because the stylus just wants to be aligned at the start and end (and therefore in the middle) and other than that it won't care. The only time you will have a problem is if you set up the geometry at the start of the groove and then by the end of the groove it's wrong. You would pick this out at your secondary geometry check. If you get the arm length totally wrong this will happen, but a 2-3mm arm length difference won't trigger this.

Maybe someone here has tried this already and can shed some light here as i don't want to mess this up !
Click to expand...
I think you are overthinking it, the differences are microscopic.
 
stevec67 said:
Yes you can. If your cartridge effectively makes the arm longer then you can slide the arm back by the appropriate amount. The thing that counts is the arc described by the stylus, and this is purely a function of the position of the arm base, the length of the arm and the stylus overhang. So if your stylus overhang should be 8mm and it's 10, you have effectively made the arm 2mm longer. In practice this will make a gnat's hair difference to the geometry but moving the arm back 2mm ought to correct the difference. You can check this with your protractor. If the protractor tells you that the cart is aligned at the start and end of the record groove, you are done. How you get there is neither here nor there, because the stylus just wants to be aligned at the start and end (and therefore in the middle) and other than that it won't care. The only time you will have a problem is if you set up the geometry at the start of the groove and then by the end of the groove it's wrong. You would pick this out at your secondary geometry check. If you get the arm length totally wrong this will happen, but a 2-3mm arm length difference won't trigger this.
Click to expand...
Thanks thats useful.
I know if you are used to doing this is probably no big deal but it takes me a while to work something out until i have done it !

Will be great once its setup.
 
When I ran my Aro on my LP12 I had an elongated hole so I could adjust the arm position for the extra overhang and line up on the inner null point. It is a bit of work. You have to install use a grid alignment tool, determine extra overhang. Then adjust base. So a little trial and error at times. I an an OC9 in that set up and it was a superb combo.
 
Mashman said:
When I ran my Aro on my LP12 I had an elongated hole so I could adjust the arm position for the extra overhang and line up on the inner null point. It is a bit of work. You have to install use a grid alignment tool, determine extra overhang. Then adjust base. So a little trial and error at times. I an an OC9 in that set up and it was a superb combo.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the feedback on the OC9. I didn't want to butcher the arm to fit the cartridge. So its gotta be another way, but i appreciate that some people have adapted their ARO heads.
 
Sorry, my bad wording. I did not butcher the arm head. I elongated the arm board hole so I could adjust the arm length and overhang.
 
stevec67 said:
You can check this with your protractor. If the protractor tells you that the cart is aligned at the start and end of the record groove, you are done. How you get there is neither here nor there, because the stylus just wants to be aligned at the start and end (and therefore in the middle) and other than that it won't care.
Click to expand...
Which protractor should i use though ? Guessing as its 211mm spindle to pivot its Linn geometry but its on a technics deck. Is this relevant or do i just use the Linn protractor ?
 
Simon s said:
Which protractor should i use though ? Guessing as its 211mm spindle to pivot its Linn geometry but its on a technics deck. Is this relevant or do i just use the Linn protractor ?
Click to expand...
Linn protector will be fine. We can get into the geometry debate but they are all about different sets of compromises. Fundamentally you are asking "is this correctly aligned at the start and the end of the record?" and any protracor will tell you this. Once the answer is "yes", stop asking the question.
 
I fixed my Aro @212mm pts on my Garrard as I favour AT carts. I had pretty accurate overhang.
It’s never going to be perfect, we’re sweeping an arc over a record that’s been cut with a straight line:D
 
adstick said:
This is my deck! I will think of something better at some point, if the Ittok/technics experiment proves to work, but blu tack was what I had to hand!
Click to expand...
I wasn't knocking it ! I will have to create a makeshift arm rest too. How are you finding the Ittok on the Techie ?
 
I love the ARO but the fixed bolt holes are a great limitation.

I've used mostly ATs on my ARO and for the most part, they work fine. A lot of them seem to have the same stylus to bolt distance. The alignment will not be spot on for sure given the fixed bolt points on the ARO headshell. I think some people have gotten round this issue by adjusting the pivot point of the ARO accordingly but that of course assumes that you can do this and probably will present its own set of problems as well.

I've also used a modified 103. The plastic case of the Denon has some 'give' that may get you a slightly more accurate alignment. Bear in mind though that the stylus profile of the 103 is such that IGD is an issue most of the time.

As for the ART9, the stylus to bolt distance (11mm) is quite out of the recommended range of the ARO. I didn't even bother trying mine so I can't say for sure that it wouldn't work. Note - I had bought my ART9 thinking it would follow similar mounting specs of the other AT carts I had but alas, no.

To be clear, AT carts do fall within the ARO's specs:

AT33 - mounting distance is 9mm
AT440 (should be the same for 540) - mounting distance is 9.6mm

All the figures are from AT spec sheets so should be correct.
 
hockman said:
As for the ART9, the stylus to bolt distance (11mm) is quite out of the recommended range of the ARO. I didn't even bother trying mine so I can't say for sure that it wouldn't work. Note - I had bought my ART9 thinking it would follow similar mounting specs of the other AT carts I had but alas, no.

To be clear, AT carts do fall within the ARO's specs:

AT33 - mounting distance is 9mm
AT440 (should be the same for 540) - mounting distance is 9.6mm
Click to expand...

Thanks for clarifying Hockman. thats useful.
 
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