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ATC SCM50 active vs. new SCM19, P1 & C4

mattski

mattski

pfm Member
I'm a gnats whisker away from ordering some new ATC SCM50ASLT's but I have a nagging thought regarding how they'd compare to the new SCM19's plus a P1 power amp and a C4 subwoofer.

One dealer thought the 19 combo would be about 80% of what you get with the 50s which given that I've already got the C4, the cost saving would not be inconsiderable.

My thoughts re the 50s...
- sound great, but wouldn't have the low end oomph of the C4
- really like the looks
- I think they're the safest re my soon to be 1 year old son.
- hold their second hand value well
- don't yet have the new tweeter but apparently an easy upgrade as and when should it matter
- the deal I have would mean getting rid of the C4

My thoughts re the 19s...
- look great bound to sound good
- really like the looks
- got the new tweeter and sl driver
- need a power amp - maybe a P1
- I think they might have better bottom end oomph than the 50s with the C4 but probably not as cohesive
- won't hold their value as well
- I get to keep the C4
- doesn't sound as "safe" as the 50s given I need stands which I have but the concern is him moving speakers, yanking the less substantial grilles off etc.

Thoughts anyone?
 
Tough one that, but straight away it's apparent that you'll not get the excellent midrange driver if you go with 19s.

I've got 50As and 20A Pros and the 20A Pro are fantastic but these are active. 20A's with subs sound great (I know two people that run 20A Pro with subs). I'm guessing 19s are similar to 20s but passive.

It also depends on the room size, if it's big'ish maybe get 50s and add subs to them later.

(When I had my 50s serviced I put the 20s in my lounge and they didn't fill the room half as much as they are nearfield monitors, not mid/far).
 
The SCM19 is a two way speaker the SCM50 is a 3 way speaker. They won't sound the same.

Active speakers are generally tighter and quicker to respond to changes in the music than passives.
 
mattski said:
I'm a gnats whisker away from ordering some new ATC SCM50ASLT's but I have a nagging thought regarding how they'd compare to the new SCM19's plus a P1 power amp and a C4 subwoofer.
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I would have thought the active 50 towers would win. If you are ordering new, consider specifying the discrete (Anniversary) amps. These can't be retrofitted later, as the cabinets are slightly different.
 
I'll just say this about the proposed comparison in theory: the idea that a sub/sat combo can compete with an on-paper brother/sister full rangers almost never works out, presuming the full rangers are built properly. the 50's most definitely are.

The thought almost invariably starts with the concept that we're comparing frequency response to frequency response, i.e. Well if this sub goes XYZ low and the tweeters go ABC high then they should probably achieve the same things.

It just isn't true because frequencey response and how transducers ultimately work in terms of music, isn't something you can do on paper.

You'll probably find a whopping, whopping improvement with the 50's in terms of coherence, dynamics, musicality, and pure enjoyment.

Sometimes there are no shortcuts.

(and, btw, IMO the above goes even NOT taking into account the 50's miracle midrange unit. Even just pound for pound on most speaker lines, the above comparison proves true. The only exceptions are when the room doesn't allow for the floorstanding/full rangers or if the full rangers are SO bad that the bookshelves do provide more detail....in this case they for sure don't).
 
AndyU said:
The 50s without any doubt whatsoever. Is this a wind-up?!
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I'd not quite go that far :) , but Matt surely 50's have enough bass for any sane man? Do you remember the Nine Inch Nail's Copy of A that I played?!!!

The mid-driver is a big part of what makes the ATC active's the sublime package that they are.

Personally I'd have thought it a no-brainer.

Does the home demo route not work for you?
 
How is bass in your room? If you go with the sub you can use DSP to correct any mode problems without paranoia about what an adc>dac filter is doing to the rest of the frequency range, plus you can control sub placement easier.

I speak from bitter personal experience as I've got +10db at 42hz on my full range mains.
 
Vital said:
I'd not quite go that far :) , but Matt surely 50's have enough bass for any sane man? Do you remember the Nine Inch Nail's Copy of A that I played?!!!

The mid-driver is a big part of what makes the ATC active's the sublime package that they are.

Personally I'd have thought it a no-brainer.

Does the home demo route not work for you?
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ffs! One pair of speakers might kill or maim his son. The other pair of speakers has ATC mid-range units in them. And matching amplifiers and active crossover. Tough call! Hope son lives long enough to see this thread.
 
Thanks guys, pretty much the responses I expected :)

So...

I've had ATC's with the midrange driver before and I know they're great. I also don't doubt that the 50s are better than 19s, but enough to justify the price difference? (Which, of course, only I can determine ultimately)

The bass in my room isn't bad, the 25s worked nicely in here but never had really visceral bass like the C4 can deliver, although one has to be "pushing on" to get that :)

Good point re the tweeter, Ian - from what I can gather ATC will allow for an upgrade and so if it's not silly money and I could get a good deal on the non-new ones then that might be an option. I could of course just wait but that'll bet tough! I'll call ATC tomorrow.

Andy, it's not a windup - it's a cost/benefit question. I also have a genuine concern re my son - he's getting mobile and strong and the last thing I want is him pulling speakers off stands or the stands over with them on top, even though they're full of lead. I can't imagine him pulling 50s over...
 
Surely there's not that much difference between the speakers+sub versus 50s on their own?

Much as I love the 100s, if I could turn back the clock, I'd probably settle on the 50s as they'd likely have met with less resistance from my dear wife.... mind you, now that we're past that, I am truly smitten with the 100s... so, yes, buy the 50s.
 
I've not heard either but if were me, and I could afford them, then it would be the active 50's, and it would be a very easy decision.
 
Vital said:
And you'd be mad to buy new 50's now without waiting for the new tweeter.
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Depends on the lead time and whether it'll be retro-fittable. I can't hear much not to like with the 'old' ATC tweeter, and wouldn't expect an enormous improvement from a new unit. In fact, I wonder whether the only reason they are making their own is to be, well, making the whole speaker in-house. Or perhaps by doing so they safeguard their own model longevity as they're then not subject to the risk of unit variance or it being discontinued... just a thought.
 
Ben Lilly claims the new tweeter is audibly better. Normally I'd say "they would say that" but this is ATC, marketing spin isn't their MO, so I'd at least say they believe that.

If I was in the market for a new pair I'd hang fire for just a little bit for the new tweeter. Give them a call and ask them for ETA.
 
Matt, 50s are the right choice for all the reasons we've stated, but mostly because:

stand-mounts + toddler = bad idea

Thank Andy for a rare appropriate use of "ffs".
 
mattski said:
Thanks guys, pretty much the responses I expected :)

So...

I've had ATC's with the midrange driver before and I know they're great. I also don't doubt that the 50s are better than 19s, but enough to justify the price difference? (Which, of course, only I can determine ultimately)

The bass in my room isn't bad, the 25s worked nicely in here but never had really visceral bass like the C4 can deliver, although one has to be "pushing on" to get that :)

Good point re the tweeter, Ian - from what I can gather ATC will allow for an upgrade and so if it's not silly money and I could get a good deal on the non-new ones then that might be an option. I could of course just wait but that'll bet tough! I'll call ATC tomorrow.

Andy, it's not a windup - it's a cost/benefit question. I also have a genuine concern re my son - he's getting mobile and strong and the last thing I want is him pulling speakers off stands or the stands over with them on top, even though they're full of lead. I can't imagine him pulling 50s over...
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The ATC midrange driver is the one big rewarding thing that you need in your hi-fi life. It is incredible, and the only thing I've heard which comes close is Quad ESLs. I think the ATC unit is better than Quads. [controversial]

As I have upgraded my system, I have realised that the limiting factor is the ancillary equipment. In most situations the ATC midrange driver is "too good" in that it will reveal exactly what is being fed into it. And that may not be to your liking.

Just tell your child to stay well away. I had active ATC 100s on phase 11 Mana, and two boys aged 10 and 8. I told them that if the speakers fell on them they would be killed.
 
I spoke to ATC this morning. They think the 50s with the new tweeters are about 6 weeks away and that it should be a home-upgrade activity if one wanted to do that. They also thought it might be about £150 per speaker but they'll call me back on Friday and let me know.
 
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