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At last... (Audiolab) - part III

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gr0001 said:
The results where that from time to time, when using the spdif connection, there was a very short (less than a sec) skip and on the cdq the message was "no lock". The problem was more frequent with 24/96 material. I use foobar and tried wasapi, kernel streaming and asio, all doing the same...
Click to expand...

I too have had problems with foobar2000 and the USB link using WASAPI on both a Vista PC and a Windows 7 laptop. It plays fine for a while but then the sound breaks up and starts juddering for want of a better word - very fast skipping with a few other odd noises thrown in.

I changed to MediaMonkey and all is well so long as the PC is dedicated to music. My PCs are only Atom based and I find MediaMonkey can skip a bit if you start surfing the web. I guess on more normally powered PCs (or hovercraft as I call them) MM would be fine while other programs are running.
 
gr0001,

While using the USB connection and "Error" is indicated then the computer has sent an "illegal" USB Frame packet (normally truncated) - there's nothing the CDQ can do, its only indicating that a bad frame has been received from the PC - this is NOT the fault of the CDQ.

For SPDIF locking issues - this could be due to a very high jitter source - normally the CDQ will try and "Auto Range" the internal PLL Bandwidth to maximise the Jitter attenuation performance - but it sounds like your sources are have a very high jitter content that "jump's about" in large discrete Time steps - the solution is to set the Digital input concerned (Digital input used with the high jitter source) from "Auto" to High Jitter BW - this is described in the user manual section 7b.

We recommend the "ESI Julia" sound card as this has proven low jitter SPDIF outputs that allow the best performance with the CDQ set to "Auto" PLL BW.

Yes, we have had cases where tight (Clamping type RCA plugs) grip the RCA ground ring so tight that they come away when pulling out the cable - if this happens, just reinsert the Ground ring - this is how the connectors are assembled so no harm will result.

The "Tighten to clamp" type RCA's should be loosen first before removing - to prevent this, this is only an issue with the Digital inputs / Digital output RCA jack - the Analogue out's have Very HQ solid machined type RCA jacks.
 
Can anyone advise me whether the 8200CDQ media player function will work direct to a NAS running a media client (iTunes probably), connected via USB - or - does it have to be via a PC?

Also - does the CDQ have a power off/on control via remote?

Thanks in advance
 
gr0001,

Also to help "Buffer" the auio playback while the PC is operating under heavy CPU load, set any "Buffer Size" or "Buffer length" option to maxuim. This will have a greater effect at higher sample rates - such as 96KHz where the demands on the PC are higher.
 
pcavelle,

The USB port on the CDQ is ONLY a USB "device" read "Slave" - so you cannot directly connect to a mass storage device such as a HDD or USB Memory stick etc.

However you can connect to iPad with Camera Kit - or to a PC etc - intelligent devices.

If a system is running iTunes, then this would suggest its "intelligent" and can stream as a "Host" to a "Dumb" Slave device such as the CDQ.

CDQ does not have standby mode due to the recent European "Green" regulations on current demands in "standby mode" - by next year, the only way to conform to standby requirements is to use an auxiliary "Switch Mode PSU” - these are generally detrimental to sound quality unless expense is spent on advance synchronisation clocking etc - but then does not ease conformity to low standby currents!!!
 
Am impressed with the performance of my brothers 8200CD, and am considering either the CD or the CDQ.

Couple of fairly simple questions:

[*] Can two stereo amps be easily connected to either of the units? Would I need to use a Y splitter or could I use phonos for one and balanced - phono adapters for the other?

[*] Can the 8200CD control the volume of its output?

Thanks,
Sam
 
sam_cat,

Only the CDQ can be directly connect to power-amps (can adjust its volume level).

Two pairs power amps can be connected (I'm presuming you wish to Bi-amp), and there are several methods:-

1. Amplifiers such as the AudioLab 8200M's have input and pass-through connections allowing ease of "daisy chaining" amps

2. Use an RCA Y-splitter cable.

3. If your amps. are single-ended (no Balanced inputs), then you can make a cable that would take the "Positive" phase from the XLR jack to one amplifier, and the "Negative" phase of the XLR to the second amp (and on this amplifier reverse the speaker connections to maintain correct system phase).

3rd options the best, while not that complicated would require a special cable to be made up (XLR to 2x RCA - and to remember to swap the speaker phase for one amp output on each channel.

John
 
JohnW said:
gr0001,

While using the USB connection and "Error" is indicated then the computer has sent an "illegal" USB Frame packet (normally truncated) - there's nothing the CDQ can do, its only indicating that a bad frame has been received from the PC - this is NOT the fault of the CDQ.

For SPDIF locking issues - this could be due to a very high jitter source - normally the CDQ will try and "Auto Range" the internal PLL Bandwidth to maximise the Jitter attenuation performance - but it sounds like your sources are have a very high jitter content that "jump's about" in large discrete Time steps - the solution is to set the Digital input concerned (Digital input used with the high jitter source) from "Auto" to High Jitter BW - this is described in the user manual section 7b.

We recommend the "ESI Julia" sound card as this has proven low jitter SPDIF outputs that allow the best performance with the CDQ set to "Auto" PLL BW.

Yes, we have had cases where tight (Clamping type RCA plugs) grip the RCA ground ring so tight that they come away when pulling out the cable - if this happens, just reinsert the Ground ring - this is how the connectors are assembled so no harm will result.

The "Tighten to clamp" type RCA's should be loosen first before removing - to prevent this, this is only an issue with the Digital inputs / Digital output RCA jack - the Analogue out's have Very HQ solid machined type RCA jacks.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the answers.

I will try the High Jitter option and let you know. The sound card I am using is the audiotrak prodigy cube which is supposed to have high quality components inside but still it is USB powered (in case this is causing the jitter problem).
 
Jek said:
All my stuff is in storage right now - when it gets out I will do a comparison. What would you say the differences are? I previously had the dacapo / dc / cardinal and then upgraded to the dacapo II cdp which was already a big improvement.
Click to expand...

Compared to the DaCapo (I've never heard the II, or the DC) ,with the CDQ you can hear the music being pulled apart in such a way that every instrument and vocal performance suddenly becomes an entity in its own right (and I mean this in a good way). Hard to believe, but the DaCapo actually sounds quite muddled by comparison (I tried swapping back). The difference really does smack you in the face. There's an improvement in bass too which is very obvious. I'm sure there's more to it than that, but I'm not as golden eared as some people on here. I just love what I hear :)

Another benefit for me is that the class A analogue pre-amp in the CDQ sounds superior to my Audiolab 8000AP, which has improved my turntable too! Ironically, the CDQ has lead to a bit of a vinyl revival in my house.
 
JohnW said:
sam_cat,

Only the CDQ can be directly connect to power-amps (can adjust its volume level).

Two pairs power amps can be connected (I'm presuming you wish to Bi-amp), and there are several methods:-

1. Amplifiers such as the AudioLab 8200M's have input and pass-through connections allowing ease of "daisy chaining" amps
Click to expand...



Many thanks John,

Am building my own amps (pair of HackerNAP's - see the DIY room if interested), the 1st is complete and am just starting the casework on the second so will go with option 1 and add a set of pass through connectors so I am not restriced down the road.

Will be borrowing my brothers 8200 CD again soon for a listen, just how much of an improvement acoustically is the CDQ over the CD?

Thanks agains for all your input. :)
Sam
 
Dominik said:
Your logs show that ALSA is getting some feedback as it's reporting momentary freq different than nominal. I wouldn't read too much into the fact the number is not changing during playback - perhaps thats just the way the logging works. It seems though that regardless of the rate feedback received, the data flow is not being adjusted. In any case, to really understand what's going on, one would have to look at the USB traffic with a bus analyzer. I'd volunteer for that, but I have no access to the SB Touch.
Click to expand...
Hi Dominik, I really appreciate that detailed reply. I will have a proper read throuh later and see how much of that I'm able to absorb! I guess the first task is to try and get the updated USB driver on to the SB and hope this fixes it. Please see my PM.
- Tim
 
gr0001 said:
Thanks for the answers.

I will try the High Jitter option and let you know. The sound card I am using is the audiotrak prodigy cube which is supposed to have high quality components inside but still it is USB powered (in case this is causing the jitter problem).
Click to expand...

The Cube is based on Tenor's USB controller. We've built a couple products around it as well. It seems to alter it's output frequency in abrupt steps which throws off the ultra low bandwidth PLL of our SPDIF receiver. The solution is to select Medium or High DPLL bandwidth on the particular CDQ's input.
 
JohnW said:
gr0001,

Also to help "Buffer" the audio playback while the PC is operating under heavy CPU load, set any "Buffer Size" or "Buffer length" option to maximum. This will have a greater effect at higher sample rates - such as 96KHz where the demands on the PC are higher.
Click to expand...

Good point - foobar2000 has this option and I had set it to minimum as I read somewhere that this maximises sound quality although I can't imagine why. I'll play with it later on.
 
technobear,

With Foobar we need to move the "Buffer Length" slider to max to prevent system dropouts - So I guess this could well have been your issue...

John
 
JohnW said:
With Foobar we need to move the "Buffer Length" slider to max to prevent system dropouts
Click to expand...
I have found the combination of Foobar / Windows 7 / WASAPI to be a bit unstable - rather dropout-prone.

Problem solved by using ASIO output via ASIO4ALL - very stable (playing 24/96 files) with Foobar buffering cranked up to the max (c. 15 seconds), in spite of very low power (Atom-based) petite laptop which seems to suffer from slow-ish WiFi link.

I'm not at all sure there is anything that could be done to make WASAPI work better, but the ASIO kludge is stable with all the audio I can throw at it, and sounds superb!
 
JohnW said:
Plutox,

Are you using a 8200CD or CDQ?
Click to expand...

CDQ.

I'm eagerly awaiting your take on this one!!

I ought to stress that all my tests so far have been using WiFi from a server. WASAPI may well work fine when playing from the local hard disk. I'll check tonight.
 
So..the second CDQis a few days and many,many hrs old and is performing faultlessly so far:D:D:D

I'm genuinely delighted that such excellent SQ costs so little, and I haven't gotten to hi-res/usb yet (frightened!).

I have a naive question for those interested in such things.

Is it worthwhile making up a shieded power cable for the cdq to cut back on any rfi (if they do), or are the power supplies so well regulated that it would be at best a waste of money.

I profess mighty ignorance of all things electrical. The reason I ask is that I was sent a pair of mega chunky Isotek elite power cables free with my Adam Audio Compacts and they look cool:p:p

Don't know if they are better than normal ones or not and I cant be arsed to test it out, partly because I don't have 3mtr kettle cables.

Cheers, Arthur.

ps, I'd be interested in John and Dominic's opinion on this, though I think I remember a skeptical comment on cable efficacy from John in the past.
 
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