Space is the Place
pfm Member
Jon, I'm sure you could fit in another 5 DAC demo/buys by August
Nope, everything is sounding really great at the mo, i gonna leave well alone!
At last... a revised Audiolab CD/Q thread.
- Thread starter sq225917
- Start date
- Status
Nope, everything is sounding really great at the mo, i gonna leave well alone!
Nope, everything is sounding really great at the mo, i gonna leave well alone!
Tweak, tweak tweak... you want to tweak...
Cereal Killer
432
Nope, everything is sounding really great at the mo, i gonna leave well alone!
Good man - i find buying more tunes kills the urge to fiddle with kit
Space is the Place
pfm Member
Tweak, tweak tweak... you want to tweak...
Good man - i find buying more tunes kills the urge to fiddle with kit
The only analogy that i can think of is a two stroke motorcycle in which the engine is running almost to well, for those that have had this experience, we all know what comes next!
Great to see such a consumer minded upgrade approach that doesn't involve selling the whole box an buying a new one - nice one John.
JohnW can you just confirm whether the early CDQs will be able to follow this upgrade path as I understand the MK2 transformers needed to be different due to the addition of the 12v triggers?
JohnW can you just confirm whether the early CDQs will be able to follow this upgrade path as I understand the MK2 transformers needed to be different due to the addition of the 12v triggers?
aybracers
Member
Thank you John for a swift reply.
What I meant about the comparison between the 8200CDQ and the Dacapo/PIP setup turns out to be partly to do with gain levels. I was reassured after reading that you and Dominik typically use aroud -15DB in the lab. Most of the contributers here have obviously got much more efficient speakers that mine(Aerial 5's - 85Db Sensitivity).
I have now abandoned the Cardinal/Dacapo from my system and am using only the 8200 but I still notice a difference in soundstage if I use the pre amp part of the 8200 in place of the PIP. Not so much with CD but definitely with my turntable using a Graham Slee Revelation phono stage attached to the 8200 analogue inputs. Maybe I shouldn't be so surprised as the extra cost of a 8200CDQ over a 8200CD is about a tenth of the original cost of the three box PIP.
What I meant about the comparison between the 8200CDQ and the Dacapo/PIP setup turns out to be partly to do with gain levels. I was reassured after reading that you and Dominik typically use aroud -15DB in the lab. Most of the contributers here have obviously got much more efficient speakers that mine(Aerial 5's - 85Db Sensitivity).
I have now abandoned the Cardinal/Dacapo from my system and am using only the 8200 but I still notice a difference in soundstage if I use the pre amp part of the 8200 in place of the PIP. Not so much with CD but definitely with my turntable using a Graham Slee Revelation phono stage attached to the 8200 analogue inputs. Maybe I shouldn't be so surprised as the extra cost of a 8200CDQ over a 8200CD is about a tenth of the original cost of the three box PIP.
JohnW
pfm member
Aybracers,
Yes, I normally have the gain level set somewhere between -20 to -12dB, so -15dB would be an avarage level.
The "Analogue" pre-amplifier of the CDQ is really a secondary function to its Digital Pre/DAC, the PIP2 - your compairing it with is one of the very best analogue Pre-amplifiers that I've heard - yes, it was VERY expensive for its day!
When your using a high-end turntable system, it would be better to connect the Phono Pre-amplifier DIRECTLY to the power-amps with a passive pre-amplifier - even better then using via the PIP2.
Is there any reason your not using the PIP's internal Phonostage? - you can then connect to the CDQ via the "Tape-out" - connected to the CDQ analogue input. (Its been a long time since I've seen a PIP2, maybe it does not have a tape out?) - Give this a try if you can...
When using the CDQ with Digital sources I recommend using the "Digitial Preamplifier Mode" of the CDQ - this is the simplest most direct path - connecting to the PIP2 will only degrade the SQ of the CDQ.
If your local to the UK, then I can make a Super high performance "Analogue Preamplifier" version of your CDQ, noise levels will take a small hit, but nowhere near the levels of Noise from your phone stage - and with your speakers and listening levels you have indicated, the noise increase will not be audioable...
Also try the Digital filters - for sound stage Optimal Transient wins over the other filters - also insure that you are set for "Digital" Pre-Amplifier (note this only effects Digital sources, Analogue source will always default to Analogue Pre-Amplifier. (Select Pre-Amplifier Mode by "Long press" on the "Mute" button on the Remote Handset).
John
Yes, I normally have the gain level set somewhere between -20 to -12dB, so -15dB would be an avarage level.
The "Analogue" pre-amplifier of the CDQ is really a secondary function to its Digital Pre/DAC, the PIP2 - your compairing it with is one of the very best analogue Pre-amplifiers that I've heard - yes, it was VERY expensive for its day!
When your using a high-end turntable system, it would be better to connect the Phono Pre-amplifier DIRECTLY to the power-amps with a passive pre-amplifier - even better then using via the PIP2.
Is there any reason your not using the PIP's internal Phonostage? - you can then connect to the CDQ via the "Tape-out" - connected to the CDQ analogue input. (Its been a long time since I've seen a PIP2, maybe it does not have a tape out?) - Give this a try if you can...
When using the CDQ with Digital sources I recommend using the "Digitial Preamplifier Mode" of the CDQ - this is the simplest most direct path - connecting to the PIP2 will only degrade the SQ of the CDQ.
If your local to the UK, then I can make a Super high performance "Analogue Preamplifier" version of your CDQ, noise levels will take a small hit, but nowhere near the levels of Noise from your phone stage - and with your speakers and listening levels you have indicated, the noise increase will not be audioable...
Also try the Digital filters - for sound stage Optimal Transient wins over the other filters - also insure that you are set for "Digital" Pre-Amplifier (note this only effects Digital sources, Analogue source will always default to Analogue Pre-Amplifier. (Select Pre-Amplifier Mode by "Long press" on the "Mute" button on the Remote Handset).
John
Hi John.
Unfortunately it was only a quick hour long demo with my speakers in the local shop.
Hopefully my mate is going to buy one this month so am intending to wrestle it out of his hands for a week long demo at chez Butuz. (though the wrestling part could prove difficult!)
Really looking forward to trying the different filters and using balanced XLR straight into my power amp. It if can equal the SQ of the M2tech Young dac I will be seriously seriously impressed.
Props for all the good work you and your team have done and are still doing! I am keeping a beady eye on what you are doing with the standalone DACs
Cheers
Butuz
Marlboro Man
pfm Member
Hi,
First post here. Great thread but haven't read it all (yet!). Just a quick question, if I may..
Would love to know how the Pre-Amp on the 8200 CDQ compares to the dedicated 8200 Q Pre-Amp. The CDQ only costs £220 extra, but you're getting a quality DAC and a cd player for this.
I already have the 8200CD and it's an awesome piece of kit, but have a dose of upgraditis already, only after a few weeks. Was thinking of a pre-amp and maybe the new monoblocks or a single power amp. So maybe I could just sell the 8200CD and get a CDQ. Would like to know if the Q (dedicated) is that much better though?
Thanks.
First post here. Great thread but haven't read it all (yet!). Just a quick question, if I may..
Would love to know how the Pre-Amp on the 8200 CDQ compares to the dedicated 8200 Q Pre-Amp. The CDQ only costs £220 extra, but you're getting a quality DAC and a cd player for this.
I already have the 8200CD and it's an awesome piece of kit, but have a dose of upgraditis already, only after a few weeks. Was thinking of a pre-amp and maybe the new monoblocks or a single power amp. So maybe I could just sell the 8200CD and get a CDQ. Would like to know if the Q (dedicated) is that much better though?
Thanks.
JohnW
pfm member
I'd go for the CDQ over the Q - you also get the benefit of the CDQ SQ improvement over the CD!
Also try the 8200P over the MB - depends on what sound your after, MB's are powerhouses - plenty of Bass Control, but can sound a little hard and "Bright"
8200P not as tight Bass as the MB's, but smoother more refined sound - I'd go for the 8200P.
John
Also try the 8200P over the MB - depends on what sound your after, MB's are powerhouses - plenty of Bass Control, but can sound a little hard and "Bright"
8200P not as tight Bass as the MB's, but smoother more refined sound - I'd go for the 8200P.
John
Marlboro Man
pfm Member
Cheers John!
The CDQ sounds like the best option alright, think I'll go with that.
Was considering the 8200P as well and I think it might be the better solution than the MB's. More power isn't always better. Don't think my Monitor Audio GS20's need them to be honest.
Thanks a million for the advice, much appreciated!
The CDQ sounds like the best option alright, think I'll go with that.
Was considering the 8200P as well and I think it might be the better solution than the MB's. More power isn't always better. Don't think my Monitor Audio GS20's need them to be honest.
Thanks a million for the advice, much appreciated!
Shane2468
pfm Member
JohnW
pfm member
Shane2468,
Headphones are Dominiks Area - he's a hardened Headphone freak using some ESL types.
I cannot get on with the "Sound stage" of headphones... apparently I need to "Cross Matrix".
The internal headphone amplifier of the CDQ (which is shared / relay switched with the main outputs) is a high quality discrete Class A design able to provided plenty of current...
John
Headphones are Dominiks Area - he's a hardened Headphone freak using some ESL types.
I cannot get on with the "Sound stage" of headphones... apparently I need to "Cross Matrix".
The internal headphone amplifier of the CDQ (which is shared / relay switched with the main outputs) is a high quality discrete Class A design able to provided plenty of current...
John
Marlboro Man
pfm Member
Okay, have a chance of getting a used 8200CDQ, but this is one of the earlier models (February) and I was reading about the upgraded/latter models with a 12V trigger. Not sure what I'll be missing out on really?
Already bought the 8200CD new, so don't really fancy spending 'new' money again on the CD/Pre. Will have to get the amps new though.
Thanks again.
Already bought the 8200CD new, so don't really fancy spending 'new' money again on the CD/Pre. Will have to get the amps new though.
Thanks again.
JohnW
pfm member
If you dont need the 12V triggers, nothing really - If you really feel the need you can give it a couple of months and then send it back to IAG UK for update to OLED & "MK3" transformer + latest software (no price set yet, but I'm guessing around GBP100 with return shipping).
John
John
Marlboro Man
pfm Member
Thanks again John. Good to know I have the option of an upgrade later on.
- Status