Assange, Wikileaks and the Trump campaign

[maxflinn]

I thought Wikileaks was a truly great concept (it still is), but it became abundantly clear over time Assange was vain, egotistical, totally corrupt/partisan and very easily played by the US alt-right, Putin etc. The evidence suggests that he very willingly helped Trump get elected and colluded with Russia to do so. I’d actually love to see him dragged up in front of the Mueller enquiry. I also think he is a total coward.

Nobody including Assange thought Trump could possibly win the presidency, so I can't see how his exposing of Clinton's crimes could be deemed as him very willingly helping Trump to get elected.

The reasons Trump is in the White House are varied, but there seems little doubt that the main one was the fact that he was running against a deeply hated, untrusted right-wing establishment warmonger offering nothing but a continuation of the status quo, at a time when voters were clearly sick of the establishment status quo, and wanted change.

She ran a woeful campaign which invigorated nobody and alienated much of the Democrat base, the Sanders fans etc. Trump, for all his faults (and likely due to his advisors) recognised the areas he needed to focus on. So he targeted immigrants and globalism, and Clinton's husband's NAFTA trade deal, speaking of jobs, jobs, jobs etc. He spoke out against warmongering, and hijacked Bernie Sander's genuine anti-establishment/Wall St sentiment with a fake version of his own.

Even with this clever campaign agenda, Trump would have lost to virtually any other Democratic candidate. But none had a chance with Clinton literally running the party.

PS, I wonder who will be blamed if Trump wins in 2020..

 

[Stunsworth]

Nobody including Assange thought Trump could possibly win the presidency, so I can't see how his exposing of Clinton's crimes could be deemed as him very willingly helping Trump to get elected.

The reasons Trump is in the White House are varied, but there seems little doubt that the main one was the fact that he was running against a deeply hated, untrusted right-wing establishment warmonger offering nothing but a continuation of the status quo, at a time when voters were clearly sick of the establishment status quo, and wanted change.

She ran a woeful campaign which invigorated nobody and alienated much of the Democrat base, the Sanders fans etc. Trump, for all his faults (and likely due to his advisors) recognised the areas he needed to focus on. So he targeted immigrants and globalism, and Clinton's husband's NAFTA trade deal, speaking of jobs, jobs, jobs etc. He spoke out against warmongering, and hijacked Bernie Sander's genuine anti-establishment/Wall St sentiment with a fake version of his own.

Even with this clever campaign agenda, Trump would have lost to virtually any other Democratic candidate. But none had a chance with Clinton literally running the party.

PS, I wonder who will be blamed if Trump wins in 2020..

Two million more people voted for Clinton than Trump. She was much more popular than he was.

 

[merlin]

PS, I wonder who will be blamed if Trump wins in 2020..

Fake news

The 6th amendment reads "The accused shall enjoy the right to a SPEEDY AND PUBLIC TRIAL BY AN IMPARTIAL JURY of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed". Americans need to take Trump down on the 6th.

 

[vuk]

New in Strasbourg

cheers.

 

[Yank]

I thought Wikileaks was a truly great concept (it still is), but it became abundantly clear over time Assange was vain, egotistical, totally corrupt/partisan and very easily played by the US alt-right, Putin etc. The evidence suggests that he very willingly helped Trump get elected and colluded with Russia to do so. I’d actually love to see him dragged up in front of the Mueller enquiry. I also think he is a total coward.

I think Assange's main agenda wasn't so much pro-Trump or pro-Putin, but an all-encompassing anti-Americanism.

 

[maxflinn]

I think Assange's main agenda wasn't so much pro-Trump or pro-Putin, but an all-encompassing anti-Americanism.

I agree to a point; I think it was more anti-American establishment.

Why do you think he'd be anti-that?

 

[Stunsworth]

Assange loses his appeal against having to pay for internet usage and laundry (and having to look after his cat)…

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2...t-follow-new-ecuador-embassy-rules-says-judge

I hadn't realised he paid nothing, occupied a third of the building - and annoys the staff with his football and skateboard. It sounds as if he's turned into a teenager.

 

[Sue Pertwee-Tyr]

I think he was always a teenager

 

[vuk]

@Stunsworth + @Sue Pertwee-Tyr

so the two of you have now embraced a trumpian perspective and blame the victim? how would you behave as a political prisoner, confined to a small space for years, who can not go outside?

 

[Yank]

@Stunsworth + @Sue Pertwee-Tyr

so the two of you have now embraced a trumpian perspective and blame the victim? how would you behave as a political prisoner, confined to a small space for years, who can not go outside?

Is he Ecuador's prisoner?

 

[vuk]

Is he Ecuador's prisoner?

he is essentially a prisoner of the UK-USA axis. the UN has called it "arbitrary detainment".

 

[Sue Pertwee-Tyr]

@Stunsworth + @Sue Pertwee-Tyr

so the two of you have now embraced a trumpian perspective and blame the victim? how would you behave as a political prisoner, confined to a small space for years, who can not go outside?

No, I’m not blaming him for his present circumstances, rather I’m saying his current behaviour isn’t a radical departure from his behaviour prior to all this.

 

[vuk]

No, I’m not blaming him for his present circumstances, rather I’m saying his current behaviour isn’t a radical departure from his behaviour prior to all this.

did you gossip about nelson mandela's personality and mannerisms when he was a political prisoner?

 

[Sue Pertwee-Tyr]

did you gossip about nelson mandela's personality and mannerisms when he was a political prisoner?

I don’t recall Mandela being a self-aggrandising, philandering schemer, so not so much to gossip about if I’m honest.

 

[vuk]

I don’t recall Mandela being a self-aggrandising, womanising schemer, so not so much to gossip about if I’m honest.

you don't recall because the press did not engage in a smear campaign. i thought confidence and boasting was a valued thing in capitalist society. we praised steve jobs and elon musk for it. but that's not the fundamental thing...

the point is: don't you wonder why, given the massive, unparalleled journalistic contribution of assange to society, you (and many people) focus on what is essential gossip, rather than the fact the powerful interests want him and people like him silenced?

 

[Tony L]

did you gossip about nelson mandela's personality and mannerisms when he was a political prisoner?

LOL. That has to be a contender for the most ridiculous post on the internet.

 

[Sue Pertwee-Tyr]

you don't recall because the press did not engage in a smear campaign. i thought confidence and boasting was a valued thing in capitalist society. we praised steve jobs and elon musk for it. but that's not the fundamental thing...

the point is: don't you wonder why, given the massive, unparalleled journalistic contribution of assange to society, you (and many people) focus on what is essential gossip, rather than the fact the powerful interests want him and people like him silenced?

Firstly, I’ve never valued confidence and boasting and am no admirer of Jobs or Musk, largely because of those traits.

But secondly, while his disclosures in the Snowden affair were hugely important, they were massively irresponsible. People probably died due to his lack of caution, and desire to be the big man. He should have taken more care over what was published.

 

[vuk]

But secondly, while his disclosures in the Snowden affair were hugely important, they were massively irresponsible. People probably died due to his lack of caution, and desire to be the big man. He should have taken more care over what was published.

that sounds like propaganda to me. who died? also, war and covert activity related to war kill a lot of people in the world. it is also usually criminal, so if some bad actors suffered "collateral damage", i would not have a big problem with that, given the overwhelming positive consequences.

 

[Tony L]

But secondly, while his disclosures in the Snowden affair were hugely important, they were massively irresponsible. People probably died due to his lack of caution, and desire to be the big man. He should have taken more care over what was published.

Agreed. It is also worth noting that no Guardian journalists, who also published the key leaks, have been arrested or detained. Assange is where he is purely because he is a vacuous self-publicist, maybe a rapist, and unquestionably a coward. The only people with spines here are Manning and Snowden. Assange really should be flung out onto the street.

PS I really want to see him hauled in front of the Mueller enquiry as he’s clearly part of that picture, and the first step towards that is prizing the slippery coward out of the embassy...

 

[Yank]

he is essentially a prisoner of the UK-USA axis. the UN has called it "arbitrary detainment".

But, specifically, not a prisoner of Ecuador. Yet it's the Ecuadorian embassy who must put up with his behavior. If he hasn't been victimized by Ecuador, how is it excusable for him to be such a bad guest?