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Apple Music

Dean Jordan

Dean Jordan

pfm Member
I have been looking into streaming quite a bit and lots of you tube videos have made me head spin.

I recently seen a video from Darko Audio talking about how to get High res Lossless from an I pad into a DAC using apple music providing the music.

I am currently testing this but so far so good. I noticed most videos people will talk about plenty of options but not often include apple music.

has anyone been able to put apple up against the other biggies like tidal and Qobuz and what was your thoughts.

Dean
 
Services all seem to have pluses and minuses in people’s eyes. Personally, I like Qobuz but others will prefer Spotify, Tidal and Deezer. If you like the sound go for Apple.
 
Hi Dean, I was a Tidal user and switched to Apple Music when they made lossless files available. I also have a Family One package that combines Storage, Apple TV+ and Apple Music for about the same as I was paying for Hi Res Tidal. I used Audirvana on a headless mac mini with Tidal and enjoyed it but since Audirvana doesn't work with streaming Apple music I have stopped using it (plus subscription model). I am using Apple music on a laptop USB direct out to a DAC. I have used an iPad directly connected and using ApplePlay 2 wirelessly, directly connected is better because it automatically swaps bit rates, using MacOS it doesn't do this which is a bit annoying and Airplay 2 I think is limited to 44.1kHz.

My comparisons at the time when I was swapping was that I couldn't accurately determine a difference between Tidal and Apple, I thought Audirvana made more difference on a Mac than the platform it was served from. As for actual hi-res files, it's so hard to do a comparison when the provenance of these files is hard to determine, I've given up and am happy with red book quality, I don't know whether my aged ears can determine the difference let alone judge between all the remastered versions as to which is best.

Having said that, on my main system it was easy to determine the steps from 256kbs to streamed 44.1 and then to locally served 44.1 file of the same recording, quite close between the last two but still there, listening in optimal conditions.

I'd go with which ever is most convenient to play back, Apple Music isn't well supported by 3rd party streaming devices. Sonos have it but it's only 256KB, you can use an Apple TV but that's limited to 48kHz and you'd need an HDMI connection, Tesla have introduced it to there media player surprisingly (not useful in the home I grant you) but that uses the Web Interface and apparently it supports hi-res but have found no way of confirming this and I am doubtful. If you have a streaming device then I'd chose Tidal for convenience, if supported but if you are happy to have a Mac or iPad as a source then Apple Music is a good alternative.

Kind Regards
 
I have HiRes Apple Music connected via USB to my Auralic Altair streamer/dac. For the most it’s indistinguishable from the content on my Qobuz subscription, over Ethernet into the Altair, and recordings on my internal SSD. Where there are differences it seems to be different masters.
The Apple UI is frustrating but the catalogue is vast, I’m hoping they can separate out the classical content an give it an appropriate UI , as they have promised.
 
shoniss said:
Hi Dean, I was a Tidal user and switched to Apple Music when they made lossless files available. I also have a Family One package that combines Storage, Apple TV+ and Apple Music for about the same as I was paying for Hi Res Tidal. I used Audirvana on a headless mac mini with Tidal and enjoyed it but since Audirvana doesn't work with streaming Apple music I have stopped using it (plus subscription model). I am using Apple music on a laptop USB direct out to a DAC. I have used an iPad directly connected and using ApplePlay 2 wirelessly, directly connected is better because it automatically swaps bit rates, using MacOS it doesn't do this which is a bit annoying and Airplay 2 I think is limited to 44.1kHz.

My comparisons at the time when I was swapping was that I couldn't accurately determine a difference between Tidal and Apple, I thought Audirvana made more difference on a Mac than the platform it was served from. As for actual hi-res files, it's so hard to do a comparison when the provenance of these files is hard to determine, I've given up and am happy with red book quality, I don't know whether my aged ears can determine the difference let alone judge between all the remastered versions as to which is best.

Having said that, on my main system it was easy to determine the steps from 256kbs to streamed 44.1 and then to locally served 44.1 file of the same recording, quite close between the last two but still there, listening in optimal conditions.

I'd go with which ever is most convenient to play back, Apple Music isn't well supported by 3rd party streaming devices. Sonos have it but it's only 256KB, you can use an Apple TV but that's limited to 48kHz and you'd need an HDMI connection, Tesla have introduced it to there media player surprisingly (not useful in the home I grant you) but that uses the Web Interface and apparently it supports hi-res but have found no way of confirming this and I am doubtful. If you have a streaming device then I'd chose Tidal for convenience, if supported but if you are happy to have a Mac or iPad as a source then Apple Music is a good alternative.

Kind Regards
Click to expand...
Hi, thanks for the info. Atm I'm using a ipad Pro I have lightning to to USB into a dac. So auto switching isn't an issue. It sounds good to me just didn't know if I was missing a step. I have a laptop I can try but I do like the ease of the ipad.
 
raysablade said:
I have HiRes Apple Music connected via USB to my Auralic Altair streamer/dac. For the most it’s indistinguishable from the content on my Qobuz subscription, over Ethernet into the Altair, and recordings on my internal SSD. Where there are differences it seems to be different masters.
The Apple UI is frustrating but the catalogue is vast, I’m hoping they can separate out the classical content an give it an appropriate UI , as they have promised.
Click to expand...
I did like iTunes a few years ago but I don't use many apple devices so I know what you mean about the UI. I prefer back arrows not swipe down top left lol.
 
I use both iTunes lossless and Quboz mainly for catalogue completeness, some historical purchases on iTunes and the ability to rip CD lossless onto a Mac Mini.

In terms of sound quality, Quboz via Audirvāna edges it but iTunes overall is very listenable.
 
Dean Jordan said:
I have been looking into streaming quite a bit and lots of you tube videos have made me head spin.

I recently seen a video from Darko Audio talking about how to get High res Lossless from an I pad into a DAC using apple music providing the music.

I am currently testing this but so far so good. I noticed most videos people will talk about plenty of options but not often include apple music.

has anyone been able to put apple up against the other biggies like tidal and Qobuz and what was your thoughts.

Dean
Click to expand...
Just get going with whatever you have to hand and find convenient. Apple Music is fine. In due course you’ll probably get annoyed by not having a remote app, so you could try using your laptop as the streamer and your iPad or iPhone as the remote control. Then try Qobuz and or Tidal, and Roon - all available on free trials. Then you might want to look at a dedicated streamer - could be another Mac or Mac mini, could be a raspberry pi, could be a fancy hifi dedicated thing. Lots of options, but you’ll only know what is for you after you’ve messed about a bit. Don’t spend a lot of money until you are sure, and don’t get locked in to any solution.
 
It's a shame that Airplay 2 doesn't support lossless but goes through an AAC/256kbps conversion.
 
krenzler said:
It's a shame that Airplay 2 doesn't support lossless but goes through an AAC/256kbps conversion.
Click to expand...
It is my understanding that AirPlay supports the following audio codecs with transmission via Wi-Fi...
  • PCM
  • Apple Lossless (ALAC)
  • AAC
  • AAC ELD (Enhanced Low Delay)
That some devices are limited to Bluetooth connectivity (such as Apple EarPods) is what limits connectivity to AAC and/or AAC ELD. Using EarPods wired circumvents this, however, there is an analog conversion in the mix with DAC and ADC along the way (meaning that there exists no contiguous lossless bitstream to the 'phones). Regardless, conversion/transmission is at 24bit/48kHz and should be good enough for Apple's über-expensive cheap earbuds.

From Apple Inc.:

"What is lossless audio and how can I listen to it?

Lossless audio compression reduces the original file size of a song while preserving all of the data perfectly. Apple Music is making its entire catalogue of more than 100 million songs available in lossless audio at different resolutions. In Apple Music, “Lossless” refers to lossless audio up to 48kHz and “Hi-Res Lossless” refers to lossless audio from 48kHz to 192kHz. Lossless and Hi-Res Lossless files are very large and use much more bandwidth and storage space than standard AAC files. Lossless audio is not available with the Apple Music Voice Plan.

You can listen to lossless audio using the latest Apple Music app on an iPhone, iPad, Mac or Apple TV 4K. Turn on lossless audio in Settings > Music > Audio Quality. You can choose between Lossless and Hi-Res Lossless for cellular or Wi-Fi connections. Note that Hi-Res Lossless requires external equipment such as a USB digital to analog converter.

For a full list of compatible devices, please see support.apple.com/en-ca/HT212183. Lossless audio is not available with the Apple Music Voice Plan."​

Re: the list of compatible devices, as per the support link in the quote above, includes the following...

"AirPods, AirPods Pro, AirPods Max, AirPods (3rd generation), and Beats wireless headphones use Apple AAC Bluetooth Codec to ensure excellent audio quality. However, Bluetooth connections aren't lossless."​
 
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