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Any subwoofer rules of thumb re. size and placement in room?

S

starbuck

pfm Member
Just curious at the moment following me reading the recent sub thread (which I didn't want to derail), about whether getting a single subwoofer to use with a pair of small standmounts could be a way to get good sound in a relatively small (~13' square) and awkward room.

I was wondering if there is any general rules about what sort of size subwoofer to look for, and whether there are positions for locating subs which are considered either good or bad? Room layout dictates that there is really only one place a sub could go in the room, with only a little space to play with in that position whish is in the front left corner, to the left hand side of the left speaker. The spot available, measured out from the left side wall is about 50cm wide and could be about 80cm long when measured from the front wall in which to move the sub around.

Re-arranging stuff to make the above mentioned space will be a bit of a faff, and I would rather avoid the faff if it doesn't seem likely a sub in that position would work. Does it sound like it might be doable?
 
Thanks for the reply/links. The REL website indicates a position in the corner so that's useful, behind the main speakers which is sort of where it would be in my room. I have options to borrow (and maybe buy) my brother's REL R505 as he is soon to be emigrating and wouldn't be taking the sub, and also maybe my brother-in-law's MJ Acoustics sub too. Not sure on the model on that one but I seem to remember it is physically smaller than my brother's REL and downward firing rather than forward firing on the REL.
 
Had a lot of REL subs but not the 505, apart from the really small ones like T Zero I have been very happy with the ones I have owned, a new Tx range is out now so the Ti range is discounted, s T5i around £350 would be my choice. If it's the popular MJ Sub from a few years back it was very good, similatr to the T5.
 
This will work. But..... you will have to spend some time getting the sub dialled in. The 505 is far too big for your application. Smaller REL subs are happier 'reaching up' to work with stand mounters - REL themselves will tell you this.
I'd look out for a nice used R205. £200-£250 should be doable.
 
Thanks for replies. Floor in the room is 3/4" thick solid pine floorboards attached onto 2" battens, above a solid concrete floor below. Not ideal but nowhere near as bouncy/lossy as the floorboards upstairs in the house.

I have checked and the MJ Acoustics sub I can borrow is a Reference 200, so a 10" downward firing drive unit as opposed to the 12" forward firing on the REL. Shame the REL is likely too big, I think I may have been able to get a semi permanent loan on that one, the MJ one could only be borrowed for a few days. Would the MJ Ref 200 be too much for the room too?
 
Must admit have never considered a sub, but as I have miniDSP 2x4 laying about might be a possibility?
What worth looking at ideally cheap used and not huge still need to see where could place it.
Have some standmount that would benefit and with miniDSP could maybe use with the dreaded naim Intro or SBLs or not needed for them?

Ideally something that could integrate high up not just at earth shaking levels
 
say it as it is said:
Must admit have never considered a sub, but as I have miniDSP 2x4 laying about might be a possibility?
What worth looking at ideally cheap used and not huge still need to see where could place it.
Have some standmount that would benefit and with miniDSP could maybe use with the dreaded naim Intro or SBLs or not needed for them?

Ideally something that could integrate high up not just at earth shaking levels
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http://www.bkelec.com/hifi/sub_woofers/gemini.htm

Older models of REL like the Quake. A few mainstream speaker brands had small subs to marry with their AV Sat speakers, Kef and MA for example, they come up as guys upgrade the Sub but keep the wall mounted speakers.
 
If you can get the REL on long term loan i'd give it a go, you don't have to turn it up high.

My little one was good in a subtle set up.
 
Go for it.

It comes across as an itch that needs scratching, and you never know, it might make your ears dance.
 
starbuck said:
Thanks for replies. Floor in the room is 3/4" thick solid pine floorboards attached onto 2" battens, above a solid concrete floor below. Not ideal but nowhere near as bouncy/lossy as the floorboards upstairs in the house.

I have checked and the MJ Acoustics sub I can borrow is a Reference 200, so a 10" downward firing drive unit as opposed to the 12" forward firing on the REL. Shame the REL is likely too big, I think I may have been able to get a semi permanent loan on that one, the MJ one could only be borrowed for a few days. Would the MJ Ref 200 be too much for the room too?
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You should borrow both and try them - Its very likely we are wrong and one or the other will work well for you. Never mind the faff, think of de bass!!
 
Nothing ventured etc., so the REL is due to arrive with me in a few days time to try first. Now need to get a suitable flat (ish) cable that can be hidden under a rug to make up a lead for a high level connection from the amp on the other side of a doorway.
 
starbuck said:
Thanks for replies. Floor in the room is 3/4" thick solid pine floorboards attached onto 2" battens, above a solid concrete floor below. Not ideal but nowhere near as bouncy/lossy as the floorboards upstairs in the house.

I have checked and the MJ Acoustics sub I can borrow is a Reference 200, so a 10" downward firing drive unit as opposed to the 12" forward firing on the REL. Shame the REL is likely too big, I think I may have been able to get a semi permanent loan on that one, the MJ one could only be borrowed for a few days. Would the MJ Ref 200 be too much for the room too?
Click to expand...
Too big? Of course large subs are physically big and take up a fair bit of space and might not enhance the look of the room, but sound wise it is better to go big with the proviso that it is properly integrated with the main speakers and the room. This isn’t a simple process to get right but worthwhile. I have used Meridian room correction, JRiver, and most recently, and effectively miniDSP to achieve this. Some more expensive subs have versatile DSP built in.

I suppose that if anyone doesn’t want to get involved with integrating a sub properly than a smaller sub might be an answer, but in my experience a small sub poses the question why bother.
 
Amber Audio said:
Had a lot of REL subs
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Did you manage to try the latest T9x, S510 and S812? I wonder how good are these or if there's any difference between the models when used in a small room. The latest Tx series are reported to have better speed than the i series by John Hunter on YouTube.
 
starbuck said:
Just curious at the moment following me reading the recent sub thread (which I didn't want to derail), about whether getting a single subwoofer to use with a pair of small standmounts could be a way to get good sound in a relatively small (~13' square) and awkward room.

I was wondering if there is any general rules about what sort of size subwoofer to look for, and whether there are positions for locating subs which are considered either good or bad? Room layout dictates that there is really only one place a sub could go in the room, with only a little space to play with in that position whish is in the front left corner, to the left hand side of the left speaker. The spot available, measured out from the left side wall is about 50cm wide and could be about 80cm long when measured from the front wall in which to move the sub around.

Re-arranging stuff to make the above mentioned space will be a bit of a faff, and I would rather avoid the faff if it doesn't seem likely a sub in that position would work. Does it sound like it might be doable?
Click to expand...

Corner sub placement will generally give you the most output from the subwoofer. Sub placement along the front axis of the room generally will give the best 'blend" between the sub and your 2 channel loudspeakers. So, at first glance the location you describe would be an excellent starting place.

You can use the room sim function on RoomEQWizard(REW) to give you an idea of how the room will interact with the sub at differing locations.It is a free piece of software available to download.

If you buy a subwoofer with buit in eq (such as M&K or SVS) you can measure the room using REW and use the parametric EQ function to help deal with bass modes and nodes. It's a fun journey and with some perseverance will lead to great results as you can see what the changes / adjustments are actually doing to the sound. You would need a mic such as a UMIK-1 for this but they are relatively cheap and easily sold on second hand when you have finished using it.

I would highly recommended looking at subs with an app as it makes adjustments a LOT easier as you don't have to move from the listening position.

Hope this helps?

Best, Tom
 
ryder said:
Did you manage to try the latest T9x, S510 and S812? I wonder how good are these or if there's any difference between the models when used in a small room. The latest Tx series are reported to have better speed than the i series by John Hunter on YouTube.
Click to expand...
I’ve not heard any of the new range, bloody Covid. I have discussed new subs for the AV with my dealer with a leaning to 2 x S812 or whatever is the equivalent REL when I am ready to go for it. He sent an SVS 1000Pro up to use over Xmas so I could have a good go over how their App works and what it’s like compared to my REL T5i, have to say I’m very impressed with it and may end up going with 2 x SVS rather than REL.

You’ve had enough gear to know that often these reviewers over egg the real world improvements, I’d go for a T9i on discount rather than a T9x if it was a decent amount less, reckon it’ll be an incremental and small improvement like the T5 to T5i was.
 
Amber Audio said:
I’ve not heard any of the new range, bloody Covid. I have discussed new subs for the AV with my dealer with a leaning to 2 x S812 or whatever is the equivalent REL when I am ready to go for it. He sent an SVS 1000Pro up to use over Xmas so I could have a good go over how their App works and what it’s like compared to my REL T5i, have to say I’m very impressed with it and may end up going with 2 x SVS rather than REL.

You’ve had enough gear to know that often these reviewers over egg the real world improvements, I’d go for a T9i on discount rather than a T9x if it was a decent amount less, reckon it’ll be an incremental and small improvement like the T5 to T5i was.
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Thanks for that. For AV or movies anything other than a REL would be more appropriate, from what I read. Cheaper and louder.

The aesthetics of the REL's look appealing with their high gloss finish and curved edges (not sure if the older T-i models have the curved cabinet though). Just concerned if the T9x/i will improve on my current PMC TLE1 which sounds fine as is. The dreaded audiophile bug syndrome.
 
ryder said:
Thanks for that. For AV or movies anything other than a REL would be more appropriate, from what I read. Cheaper and louder.

The aesthetics of the REL's look appealing with their high gloss finish and curved edges (not sure if the older T-i models have the curved cabinet though). Just concerned if the T9x/i will improve on my current PMC TLE1 which sounds fine as is. The dreaded audiophile bug syndrome.
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The older models are more of a square shape, the new Tx have a bit of a rounded edge, for a HiFi system I’d lean to REL, the higher end ones are really well built, finished and aesthetically pleasing.

I had toyed with a return to a single combined AV/HiFi system hence eyeing up 2xS812, now I’m leaning with keeping them separate, the new AV gear appears buggy and unfinished even the real top end stuff is struggling with the new HDMI port implementations so I might go for cheaper SVS and up to the bigger Logans with 2x12” subs built in, my current Logans have 2x8” powered subs in the base with DSP.
 
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