Any pensions experts here? Transferring an NHS pension from the UK to NZ

[Vinny]

Buying NI contributions is almost a licence to print money in most cases - the return, in % terms, is enormous, far in excess of any interest rate obtainable, albeit once the money is gone, it has gone, you just get increased state pension payments.

 

[epo1]

Money Saving Expert on voluntary contributions, includes an is-it-worth-it calculator.

 

[madmike]

The NHS pension, along with other public service pensions, is currently under a major review due to the court judgment in the McLoud case. The intention is to rectify certain discriminatory parts of the scheme rules. The actuary guys mentioned above will know all about this.

 

[gez]

The rule over income tax was that if you were abroad for more than a few months (6????) each year, you could opt to pay tax in whichever contry you chose - this was how the trades people working abroad made a mint in the 1970's/80's as per Aufwiedersehen Pet.

Not sure if you're referrring to the same thing, but in the 90's at least if you worked as a contractor abroad, your contract had to be for at least a year and a day in order to not have to pay income tax in the UK. In other words, barring limited visits back to the UK to see family etc, you had to be abroad for at least a year.

 

[Bob McC]

If you are drawing a U.K. based pension whilst living abroad I believe you can choose which tax regime to be taxed under, unless it is a U.K. public sector pension, in which case you have no choice, it is taxed by HMRC in the U.K.

 

[John Thomas]

Really?
According to the NHS scheme you can.
You might like tell the BMA where they re wrong…

Transferring money out of the NHS pension scheme

This guidance is for members who leave the NHS pension scheme prior to retirement who may wish to transfer their pension benefits out of the NHS pension scheme and what actions you need to take to do this.

www.bma.org.uk

You can transfer it to another DB scheme, so what would the point be? No scheme will accept the transfer, there is nothing in it for them but costs. So in practical terms, yes really. I'm fairly confident.

 

[John Thomas]

Not sure if you're referrring to the same thing, but in the 90's at least if you worked as a contractor abroad, your contract had to be for at least a year and a day in order to not have to pay income tax in the UK. In other words, barring limited visits back to the UK to see family etc, you had to be abroad for at least a year.

The are double taxation agreements. Easy read.

 

[John Thomas]

Sean, as a family lawyer with a specialism in pensions I would recommend you go to a pension actuary. They are not cheap but what they don't know isn't worth knowing...I would mention George Mathieson of Mathieson Consulting, Southdown consultancy or Anne Pettifor of Collins Actuaries. Most of your regular IFAs wont have a clue though there are exceptions.

Why would someone pay eye watering fees here, what have I missed. Specialising in pensions, I'm guessing you are appropriately qualified, pensions being a regulated area. If you're not, you could get into trouble for writing the above.

 

[John Thomas]

UK pension law has changed massively over the past 10-15 years or so (probably longer). About the only thing you can't do now, is remove all of your money tax-free, which you never have been able to, otherwise, anyone is free to do what they like with it, even if the "system" now asks you a million times if you are sure you want to do what you propose.
I am about to retire and to make life easier, I have transferred two small pension pots into a third. Both providers that I left had me jump through endless hoops even though one was just £7K and the other £15K, and it was being transferred to Aviva.

The rule over income tax was that if you were abroad for more than a few months (6????) each year, you could opt to pay tax in whichever contry you chose - this was how the trades people working abroad made a mint in the 1970's/80's as per Aufwiedersehen Pet.

There is an age limit to most changes/options you can take with pensions - generally, you have to do whatever you want to do before age 75.

I didn't like to ask for details, but the village idiot at work had his mother, who works in the NHS, transfer all her pension out of the NHS scheme. Yes, he really is that thick, and she is obviously not much brighter. Like an awful lot of people, he/they see a pension pot as just a massive pot of gold, not something that is meant to feed and house you for, hopefully, 20+ years after finishing work.

How stable long-term, is the £/NZ$ exchange rate? That should influence what you do, in fact, it should have been considered 20 years ago. A friend of a friend had a pension in RSA and SA law prohibited moving the money to the UK and within a few years her ZAR pension was almost worthless.

There are two types of pension , DB and DC, you are talking about DC in what you write above, the NHS pension is DB, it doesn't work like that...Careless talk... same with double taxation agreements

 

[Dozey]

Why would someone pay eye watering fees here, what have I missed. Specialising in pensions, I'm guessing you are appropriately qualified, pensions being a regulated area. If you're not, you could get into trouble for writing the above.

How on earth could he get into trouble for suggesting getting specialist advice?

 

[Vinny]

There are two types of pension , DB and DC, you are talking about DC in what you write above, the NHS pension is DB, it doesn't work like that...Careless talk... same with double taxation agreements

You really ought to check what you spout before getting it in print.

I am in the process of taking/setting up my DB pensions and all that I said applies.

At the very simplest level, the law states that anyone can withdraw up to 25% of their pot(s), free of income tax - DB or DC is totally irrelevant. Anyone, foolish enough, or has a severely life-shortening condition, for instance, can take more than 25%, up to 100%, but is taxed on anything beyond 25%.. One friend retired in his mid fifties as he is 200% convinced he will not see statutary pension age - his father died young, which is part of it - but he took all his pension pots as cash.
Friends who I have worked with have taken 100% of their DB pot and the smaller, more recent DC pot, people (idiots) that I work with now are taking all their DB and DC pots as cash.

Not only that, but you can do that at any time after age 55.

A major driving force is the thought of leaving a "huge sum of money" to children, which they will not have if left in a DB scheme paying a pension, or they buy an annuity. To me, it is insane, but each unto their own.

Or perhaps the endless letters and quotes from RR, ICI, GE and Aviva that have piled up here are purely my imagination?

 

[madmike]

Why would someone pay eye watering fees here, what have I missed. Specialising in pensions, I'm guessing you are appropriately qualified, pensions being a regulated area. If you're not, you could get into trouble for writing the above.

You''ve missed that there's a difference between legal and financial advice...I am qualified for the former only. It always pays to get proper advice from the right sort of expert. Pensions are very valuable and regulated advice costs money but I would always argue that you get what you pay for. Anyway...I'm just trying to help here...

 

[John Thomas]

You''ve missed that there's a difference between legal and financial advice...I am qualified for the former only. It always pays to get proper advice from the right sort of expert. Pensions are very valuable and regulated advice costs money but I would always argue that you get what you pay for. Anyway...I'm just trying to help here...

It might pay to get the right sort of advice if it pays, which is probably unlikely. If you give pension advice and the person receiving it thinks you're qualified, "a family lawyer specialism in pensions" you have broken the law.

Guidance, which is all you probably need, is available free from the government on 0800 011 3797- MaPS.

 

[John Thomas]

Y

You really ought to check what you spout before getting it in print.

I am in the process of taking/setting up my DB pensions and all that I said applies.

At the very simplest level, the law states that anyone can withdraw up to 25% of their pot(s), free of income tax - DB or DC is totally irrelevant. Anyone, foolish enough, or has a severely life-shortening condition, for instance, can take more than 25%, up to 100%, but is taxed on anything beyond 25%.. One friend retired in his mid fifties as he is 200% convinced he will not see statutary pension age - his father died young, which is part of it - but he took all his pension pots as cash.
Friends who I have worked with have taken 100% of their DB pot and the smaller, more recent DC pot, people (idiots) that I work with now are taking all their DB and DC pots as cash.

Not only that, but you can do that at any time after age 55.

A major driving force is the thought of leaving a "huge sum of money" to children, which they will not have if left in a DB scheme paying a pension, or they buy an annuity. To me, it is insane, but each unto their own.

Or perhaps the endless letters and quotes from RR, ICI, GE and Aviva that have piled up here are purely my imagination?

You need to have a quick check up on DB and DC pensions. The topic afaik is the NHS pension. There is no pot there. Yes a nominal 25% tax free but not pot, the rest is pension proper.

Serious ill health (less than 12 months), yes you can take 100% (of a DC pot, not DB) but actually it's all tax free, not just the first 25% (as long as it hasn't been accessed before).

You may be thinking about DB-DC transfers, whole different conversation but you can't cash in a DB pension. Importantly you can't transfer the NHS pension into a DC pot.

If you're not certain about what you're writing about regarding pensions, you'd be as well to check it out first.

 

[Vinny]

Guidance, which is all you probably need, is available free from the government on 0800 011 3797- MaPS.

More total guff.
Have you tried it? I have.

It is NOT advice as such - the adviser can only draw your attention to the things to consider and the options available. There is not and cannot be DETAILED advice.

Fortunately, most Trade Unions do offer REAL detailed advice to their members, obviously from a proper qualified person. Two of my pension funds do the same - they pay for professional advice, one is DB, one DC.

 

[Vinny]

You need to have a quick check up on DB and DC pensions.

No I do not.

For the great majority of my life, I have worked with a DB pension provided by my employer. Only for the past 10 years have I had a DC pension provided by my employer.
Ever since starting work, people around me have taken their DB pensions and usually commuted a lump sum when retiring.

 

[John Thomas]

More total guff.
Have you tried it? I have.

It is NOT advice as such - the adviser can only draw your attention to the things to consider and the option available. There is not and cannot be DETAILED advice.

Fortunately, most Trade Unions do offer REAL detailed advice to their members, obviously from a proper qualified person. Tow of my pension funds do the same - they pay for professional advice.

They will point out the relevant information but you need to decide. You may be thinking about Pension Wise, the helpline will answer any question you like to throw at them, LTA, tapered annual allowance, detail about the removal of the LTA, TUPE, whatever you like, all free and in a greater detail as there is available, they know the PTM. But they won't tell you what to do, that's on you.

Trade unions would be referring people to MaPS as do ACAS. If they get you qualified advisers, that's good. MaPS is free, at the end of the phone.

 

[John Thomas]

No I do not.

For the great majority of my life, I have worked with a DB pension provided by my employer. Only for the past 10 years have I had a DC pension.
Ever since starting work, people around me have taken their DB pensions and usually commuted a lump sum when retiring.

Do you think you can transfer an NHS pension into a DC scheme? As it the topic here apparently.

 

[Vinny]

Trade unions would be referring people to MaPS

No. Wrong again.

The friend who retired in his 50's had numerous meeting on-site with a union-provided advisor. Because he was taking all his money he needed plenty of advice (not to do it was not acceptable advice).

 

[Vinny]

Do you think you can transfer an NHS pension into a DC scheme?

If you take a pension pot, you can do whatever the hell you like with it.
You can even pay into a pension fund from a pension.

Lord alone knows what the village idiot's mother did with her NHS pension pot.

I ought to also point out that a DC pension pot is NOT a pension, whereas a DB pot effectively is. If you want a pension from a DC pot, you conventionally spend some or all of that pot on a annuity, of which there are endless types. When you buy that annuity, there is no tax payable on the sum.