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anti-semitism in the democratic party

vuk

vuk

\o/ choose anarchy


for those who have not followed the story, the new, progressive member of congress posted "it's all about the benjamins" (a hip-hop allusion) on twitter in reference to israeli lobby money
 
They already could, and have (click the link I posted above your post). This was 2017.

It's a touchy subject. A real hot potato, in fact. Also a fact is the chummy relationship neoliberal Dems have with Israel. Most any neoliberal or neocon, for that matter.
I think when you peel that onion the holy land has a real holy shit thing happening. You definitely have to watch what you say about them.
 
Ilhan Omar is my representative in Congress. I voted for her, and I know she is not anti-Semetic.

She is, however, guilty of two things. One, she ruffled a lot of feathers by saying some of her Democratic colleagues had dual allegiances to the US and Israel, and her “Benjamins” comment played into some old tropes about how wealthy Jews control politicians. Trump and the GOP have been having a field day with their faked outrage over her comments.

IMO, she could have made her points with more nuance. She could have argued successfully that criticizing Israeli policy was not, in and of itself, anti-Semetic. She could also have argued against money in politics, citing AIPAC as merely one of among many examples. Where I think she made her big mistake was accusing her peers of being on the take. This left them no choice but to respond angrily, and for her to apologize. I think Pelosi has done an admirable job of coaching her through this rookie mistake. And who knows, maybe it will help in the long run promote a more balanced dialog about US/Israeli relations.
 
Hook said:
I think Pelosi has done an admirable job of coaching her through this rookie mistake.
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Would this be the same Pelosi who snuggles up to AIPAC and keeps dog tags of Israeli soldiers as a 'symbol of the sacrifices made'; was happy to gift 38 Billion taxpayer dollars to Israel in a Memorandum of Understanding, and just the other day said impeaching Trump was 'just not worth it'?

TBH, that's an easy phrase to toss around for someone with a net worth over $100 Million in Benjamins.

In any event, she's a great murikan and an asset to US democracy!
 
Marky-Mark said:
Would this be the same Pelosi who snuggles up to AIPAC and keeps dog tags of Israeli soldiers as a 'symbol of the sacrifices made'; was happy to gift 38 Billion taxpayer dollars to Israel in a Memorandum of Understanding, and just the other day said impeaching Trump was 'just not worth it'?

TBH, that's an easy phrase to toss around for someone with a net worth over $100 Million in Benjamins.

In any event, she's a great murikan and an asset to US democracy!
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Yes, the same Pelosi who has been critical of the Netanyahu government, especially in regards to the Iran nuclear deal, and has long supported a two-state solution.

As far as impeaching Trump, I agree with her. There's an old saying in business and politics: if it feels good, don't do it. Pelosi is making a calculated political decision. While it would feel good to try and impeach Trump, without hard evidence of a serious crime, the process would be perceived by many centrist voters as partisan. It would not help the Dem's chances of winning back the presidency in 2020.
 
I'm way too negative on politicians, especially the career (and usually very wealthy) players, to be of much use in a conversation beyond irritating people!

Political drama and intrigue grew absolutely insufferable for me after Bush vs. Gore.
 
chainrule said:
i really don't understand this unconditional support for Israel, either in Congress, or via the right's hypocritical outrage over Ilhan Omar's comments.
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All those US "Christians" who are Trump's most faithful supporters see the creation and maintenance of Israel as a necessary condition to bring about The Second Coming. The Israelis shamelessly play to them and to this belief, even though it is the complete antithesis of what Judaism believes.
 
Hook said:
Ilhan Omar is my representative in Congress. I voted for her, and I know she is not anti-Semetic.

She is, however, guilty of two things. One, she ruffled a lot of feathers by saying some of her Democratic colleagues had dual allegiances to the US and Israel, and her “Benjamins” comment played into some old tropes about how wealthy Jews control politicians. Trump and the GOP have been having a field day with their faked outrage over her comments.

IMO, she could have made her points with more nuance. She could have argued successfully that criticizing Israeli policy was not, in and of itself, anti-Semetic. She could also have argued against money in politics, citing AIPAC as merely one of among many examples. Where I think she made her big mistake was accusing her peers of being on the take. This left them no choice but to respond angrily, and for her to apologize. I think Pelosi has done an admirable job of coaching her through this rookie mistake. And who knows, maybe it will help in the long run promote a more balanced dialog about US/Israeli relations.
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yes but it's painfully true - and someone needs to bring it up ... she probably realizes she will be burnt at the stake for it ... but there are LARGE numbers of congress and senate members who are US/Israeli dual-nationals - just IMAGINE the scandal were they to be Russian dual nationals!! shocking!
 
Jonathan said:
yes but it's painfully true - and someone needs to bring it up ... she probably realizes she will be burnt at the stake for it ... but there are LARGE numbers of congress and senate members who are US/Israeli dual-nationals - just IMAGINE the scandal were they to be Russian dual nationals!! shocking!
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Your post is painfully false. Perhaps a quick read from outside the world of alt-right, anti-Semitic conspiracy theories will help.

https://www.politifact.com/punditfa...ory-behind-diane-rehms-question-bernie-sande/
 
All most anti-semetic trope accomplishes is obscuring Israeli influence on American policy; the conversation should follow the money and leave the anti-this-and-that to internet warriors.

For example, from the garden variety Wikipedia re Israeli Pacs:

"In 2006, 60% of the Democratic Party's fundraising from private sources (and 25% of the Republican Party's fundraising) came from pro-Israel PACs, according to a Washington Post estimate, Democratic presidential candidates depend on pro-Israel sources for as much as 60% of money raised from private sources"

Current documentation exists here and so it stands to reason that this money accomplishes outcomes such as the link in post #2. Whatever else it accomplishes ... I don't know but I'm sure it stinks to high heaven.

It's a considerable amount of money over the years. And so perhaps if Israel kept some of these funds the US wouldn't need to funnel billions back to them every year. Think of the children!


paccontributions.jpg
 
Hook said:
While it would feel good to try and impeach Trump, without hard evidence of a serious crime
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hold on a sec, didn't that twitter guy publish a book not that long ago called "evidence of collusion"?

as for tropes, i am with marky here -- the biggest one in all this is that criticism of israel (and, more specifically, AIPAC) is by default antisemitic. the ideas these young progressives are expressing are rooted in the scholarship and journalism of jewish intellectuals like noam chomsky, glenn greenwald, norman finkelstein, norman solomon, etc.
 
because impeachment is a political act not a judicial one. getting 2/3 of the house and senate to vote for impeachment in nigh impossible w/o hard evidence of a serious crime. that's why many house and senate democrats are waiting for the mueller report before committing to impeachment. since democrats have a knack for grabbing defeat from the jaws of victory, i can why they are hesitant to impeach.
 
chainrule said:
because impeachment is a political act not a judicial one. getting 2/3 of the house and senate to vote for impeachment in nigh impossible w/o hard evidence of a serious crime. that's why many house and senate democrats are waiting for the mueller report before committing to impeachment. since democrats have a knack for grabbing defeat from the jaws of victory, i can why they are hesitant to impeach.
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we get all that. yet, after 2 years of hype, perhaps people like rachel maddow and nacy pelosi can admit that they were conned into believing some fantastic tales or even complicit in fabricating them. it's not as if some little investigation nobody was paying attention to didn't reveal anything spectacular.

that said, i am baffled at how trump can get away with the obvious and flagrant financial criminality that has turned up. for those complaining about corbyn failing to take political advantage of a sitter, how about those dems?!
 
vuk said:
we get all that. yet, after 2 years of hype, perhaps people like rachel maddow and nacy pelosi can admit that they were conned into believing some fantastic tales or even complicit in fabricating them. it's not as if some little investigation nobody was paying attention to didn't reveal anything spectacular.
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because they're in the entertainment industry. when in doubt, listen to what mueller and his team has to say.

that said, i am baffled at how trump can get away with the obvious and flagrant financial criminality that has turned up. for those complaining about corbyn failing to take political advantage of a sitter, how about those dems?!
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because he's the president, and the republicans are spineless.
 
Jonathan said:
??

i wasn't commenting about bernie sanders ... can you clarify?
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Try reading the article, and not just the headline. The lie you repeated about dual US/Israeli citizenship has been around for more than a decade. It has been spread by ignorant, anti-Semitic conspiracy theorists who think that if someone is Jewish, then they are automatically a citizen of Israel. That is simply wrong.
 
Hook said:
Try reading the article, and not just the headline. The lie you repeated about dual US/Israeli citizenship has been around for more than a decade. It has been spread by ignorant, anti-Semitic conspiracy theorists who think that if someone is Jewish, then they are automatically a citizen of Israel. That is simply wrong.
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not at all ... and yes I DID read it - and i agree that 'jewish does not in the least an israeli make' ... members of congress and senate being of dual-national status aside (just IMAGINE if even one of them were a RUSSIAN dual national - can you IMAGINE the furor??) i think that if we cozy up to other states too much then we are playing with fire ...especially one with a penchant/history for ethnic cleansing and genocide like israel - but all that aside I think the AIPAC influence is likely much worse than the 'dual national' issue ...

it's also a pretty big problem when one conflates national and ethnic identities ... the knife has two edges ...
 
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