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Ancient system - full upgrade

B

bunkport

New Member
Hi Folks
As requested in the warm welcome messages :-

Old system -
It's yer basic student budget package ..... standard Richer Sounds stuff , from back in the day
..... before they moved up-market :)

NAD amp , Dual / Ortofon turntable , Aiwa cassette deck and a CD player , all of which are
heading out of the door ( except maybe the cassette deck since I rarely play tapes )

In with the new -

I've recently got hold of a Cambridge Audio amp and have my heart set on a Rega 2
to replace the old Dual / Ortofon turntable .
But I'm in a total quandary about speakers , mainly because I'm so out of touch with today's
hifi market .
Something around a grand in budget ...... Elac ? , KEF LS50 ? , Wharfdale Linton ?

The more reviews that I trawl through , the harder it gets to choose !
My preference would be something floor-standing , but a bookshelf that can deliver the goods
would also be OK .

Trying to audition speakers in local hifi shops always seems to lead to being steered towards
a "better" product ..... ie. one that they stock , and that they are currently pushing hard :)

Any opinions on the above 3 speakers would be much appreciated , as will any and all
suggestions for alternatives .

Many Thanks to all !
 
Essential to audition speakers in your home, if buying new.

S/h bargains to be had from the classifieds here though, and if choosing wisely easy enough to move on after “extended demo”.

Do you need extended bass? If not stand-mounts are worth considering.

How much space can you leave behind speakers? If, like most of us, not much, then I’d avoid rear ported speakers.

P.S. the LS50s are an excellent example of why you need to form your own opinion, and in your own room. Excellent reviews in some places, and several here like them. I thought they were bloody awful. Not saying that I’m right, just that personal preferences are what they are.

P.P.S you don’t mention your current speakers, and what you do and don’t like about them.
 
I bought the first gen LS50 to replace Rega RS1 in our kitchen/diner system based on their stellar reviews a few months after they were released. Neither the Brio nor Unitiqute made a good fist of driving them, tried them in the AV room with some big power amps on solid stands well away from walls and they sounded much better but still not living up to the hype, many many folk do love them though and the new Meta versions are supposed to be even better.

If you’re open to buying used Proac 140, Dynaudio Contour 1.8Mk2 and B&W CM8 are all floorstanders I’d have again, from many others I've had over time, those 3 under a £Grand pleased me the most. Standmounts wise some ProAc Studio (several models over the years) on Target R (super heavy) stands with a Sub would be my first choice.

Maybe post the Amp/Specs so you’ll get more targetted suggestions.
 
Can you change it gradually? It is often the case the older systems are still competitive with today’s offerings. My own system is a mixture of vintage and new and it does sound well.
 
I’d be tempted to look for a used rega p3 - there have been a couple on here recently. There’s little to go wrong so are generally a good buy second hand.

Also, have a look at alchris speakers
https://alchrisaudio.co.uk/
They are a new venture made by a very well respected designer and are very good value as you are buying directly from the manufacturer.

As always, try and listen if you can. Most suggestions will be for the kit that people have in their own living rooms.
 
I wouldn't spend a thousand pounds on speakers driven by a Cambridge amp with a Planar2 feeding it.

Firstly, there are loads of good, used speakers out there so buying new is unnecessary.

But more importantly, lovely though the Rega is, the source is much more important than the speakers. This is especially true of turntables where there is a big difference between a budget and a top model. Timing, dynamics, detail levels, tonality, noise are all defined by the turntable and can't be fixed further down the line.

A better turntable and a pair of cheaper speakers, especially used ones, will give you a much better sound. I'd move up to a Planar or used LP12 territory.
 
Mr Pig Trade: ^
'the source is much more important than the speakers.'

Simply not correct and I'm shocked that someone in the trade would make such a comment. Within whatever budget you set yourself you should aim to end up with a balanced system. There is no point in the front end wringing every nuance out of whatever source you use and the speakers not being capable of the same level of performance.
That said I probably wouldn't spend a grand on speakers to go with the Cambridge [I think you have gone too low changing amps from NAD to Cambridge - a bigger step up would have been my suggestion] and Rega I would try some of the used suggestions given above and if you don't like them you move them on at a small loss until you find what you like.
 
I’m with Mr Pig here too, especially in relation to turntables. Digital sources are different and the balanced system argument makes more sense. With turntables, no, get the best you can as long as what’s downstream isn’t rubbish. Fortunately very good second hand turntables are available that sound fabulous. A Systemdek, Linn, Pink Triangle or older higher end Rega such as a P25 or P9 would be a great place to start.
 
Del monaco said:
Can you change it gradually? It is often the case the older systems are still competitive with today’s offerings. My own system is a mixture of vintage and new and it does sound well.
Click to expand...

First off that's a good point..

I'd start with a speaker amp combination and while I was firmly in the source first camp in my early years,
for the last two decades I found you can win battles here and there with sources,
but the amp and speakers decide the result of the war.

So I'd start with the amp, can't say much about the Cambridge but would agree that in my perception that the step from NAD to Cambridge doesn't sound like a Galaxy jump to me.

Depending on what your listening habbits are, I found the Wharfdale Linton a very pleasant and good, lightly warm-ish alrounder. But I'd agree that with a somewhat limited budget, looking at s/h speakers may take you in a much higher sq territory. Also with the amp...you'd have to get the amp-speaker pairing right
and you may well find you can enjoy the Dual for quite a while, depending on what it is exactly.

My first deck was a lightly pimped Dual beltdrive with a nastly bajonett plastic headshell that would shake around like a cow's tail.
After having cared for the shake-issue & giving it a decent MM, my local Linn dealer gave it a head to head race with a Linn Basic & to his astonishment he found that he couldn't tell them apart.
Not much of a Rega fan here, so like the amp I wouldn't expect a huge upgrade from a Dual beltdrive to a Rega under the 3. To my ears my Dual by then sounded better than a Rega 3.
But I may be wrong, I haven't heard the latest generation.

So get the speakers and amp right first..and in contrary to the deck I could imagine a Rega amp in the closer choice among others.
 
LecsonQuad said:
Simply not correct and I'm shocked that someone in the trade would make such a comment. Within whatever budget you set yourself you should aim to end up with a balanced system.
Click to expand...

I'm not in the trade, just happen to have a trade account just now, but it doesn't really matter. What I do have is almost forty years of this, especially turntables. Owned, used and heard more than I can remember, have five in the house just now.

Digital has different rules, and I'm not saying an LP12 into a sound bar is the way to go, but turntables are engineering products. You can't make good ones cheaply. I still remember trading my Dual in against a Planar 3 in my teens and it being plugged into a Naim system to check it was working. That little plastic turntable I'd been perfectly happy with for a year sounded absolutely terrible. The more revealing amp and speakers let you hear very clearly what was wrong with the Dual.

The Planar 2 wouldn't suffer the same fate, it's proper Hi-Fi and much better than the Dual, but it's still limited. It's not going to have the timbre, depth or weight of a better turntable, among other things.

By contrast, if you go from say a pair of £300 bookshelf speakers to a pair of £800 floor standers, all else being equal, say within the same range, probably the only the only thing you'll be gaining is bass weight. Not necessarily quality, but weight. And you'll easily find a pair of used £300 speakers that are more revealing than new £1000 ones.

Been there, done it, worn out the T-shirt. Unless you are very limited in budget and want a full budget system, buy the best turntable you can afford. Even with a decent budget amp and speakers you'll get the most satisfaction that way and the best foundation for future improvement.
 
I understand the viewpoint of upgrading the speakers rather than starting at the reproduction source.

At least with half decent speakers one can properly hear how bad the original source is, and then the next step of upgrading source components brings audible benefits without the doubt that the speakers are at fault.
 
Big Tabs said:
..without the doubt that the speakers are at fault.
Click to expand...

Really? How do you know that when you don't even know what they are?

They might be a weakness, I don't know what they are either, and I'm not suggesting he necessarily keep them. Just wouldn't spend a grand on speakers to go with a Planar 2.
 
Mr Pig said:
Really? How do you know that when you don't even know what they are?

They might be a weakness, I don't know what they are either, and I'm not suggesting he necessarily keep them. Just wouldn't spend a grand on speakers to go with a Planar 2.
Click to expand...

speaking in general terms. really.
 
If you have 1K + budget I'd start from scratch.
Sell on the Cambridge amp, much better budget amps available out there.

If your looking at P2 price level perhaps think second hand.
For example the RP6 is often seen not much more expensive than a new P2.
As others say, source is logically important, you can't improve a mediocre signal no matter what you put behind it.
Many believe speakers are the most important, but don't quite understand a lousy result if they purchased all budget backwards.

Lots of good bargain speakers second hand.
 
I’d definitely go secondhand as you’ll get better value and a better sound. So many amazing used speakers between £100-300. I personally think that you cannot beat Ruark Talismans for £200, they are amazing. Steer away from used Naim unless you have a bigger budget, instead buy Exposure, Ion or Onix as all are better value.

I’d then look for something like a Linn Axis, possibly a Planar 3 or upwards.
 
bunkport said:
I've recently got hold of a Cambridge Audio amp and have my heart set on a Rega 2
to replace the old Dual / Ortofon turntable .
But I'm in a total quandary about speakers , mainly because I'm so out of touch with today's
hifi market .
Something around a grand in budget ...... Elac ? , KEF LS50 ? , Wharfdale Linton ?
Click to expand...

I'd forget the old school suggestions and keep with the Planar 2 (recently updated by Rega) fitted with a budget moving magnet cartridge (assuming the Cambridge has a built in phono stage). I'd say Rega again but I'm biased.

Keeping the amp, I'd hook it up to a pair of the latest Rega Kyte speakers which I've personally tried at home. They sound great, look very different and come in at half your speaker budget.

Loads of possibilities, just my two penn'orth.
 
Mr Pig said:
What I do have is almost forty years of this, especially turntables. Owned, used and heard more than I can remember, have five in the house just now.
Click to expand...

Now that's just silly! :D I've always been a one deck man; it's where the most investment has gone for well over 50 years. I agree wholeheartedly with Mr Pig (Colin?) and others, as I frequently do. I agree with your preference for floorstanders, Bunkport as they represent more sound for £ and don't require expensive stands. Again, from NAD, your choice or Cambridge is possibly ill-advised, but of course you need to consider the phono section; MM or MC or both or separately. Again, I advocate buying used and biding your time; far better bang for buck if well researched and bought from a reliable source (here, e.g.).
 
You should definitely try out some different speakers in your own home before you make a decision. I've never personally got on with floorstanders, too boxy & boomy in my experience, much preferred the standmounts I've owned.

If space & positioning is in anyway an issue then you should certainly be looking at Amphion Argon 1s.

Knowing the size of your room & music preferences would help to narrow the choices.

Agree to the above as well, you should try & stretch to the P3 or s/h RP6.

As for amp, yes the Onix & Ion are superb but by the time you've factored in a service they are less vfm. A s/h Arcam A75 or A85 offer spectacular vfm & are probably just about recent enough that they don't require a service.

TS
 
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