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Ancient LP12 - home diagnostic checks and possible fettling ?

If digital sounds better to you, trade in the turntable for a cheap streamer and take on a Qobuz subscription. You will have access to a huge range of music and won't need to store/care for/obsess over fragile pieces of plastic.

Vinyl is an essentially anachronistic medium. Some people, for reasons based on non-objective criteria, persuade themselves that they need it. Music matters more.
 
Oh yes - it should spin quietly too otherwise it may need oil in the bearing (ask on here which oil to use and how much - lots of folk will know what to buy and what not to)
 
marshanp said:
If digital sounds better to you, trade in the turntable for a cheap streamer and take on a Qobuz subscription. You will have access to a huge range of music and won't need to store/care for/obsess over fragile pieces of plastic.

Vinyl is an essentially anachronistic medium. Some people, for reasons based on non-objective criteria, persuade themselves that they need it. Music matters more.
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Yes, if starting out these days and you don't really care about the Tune then it's way more cost effective to get a decent streamer but I think your confusing your anachronistic mediums, and yes, I agree, Music matters more & satisfies more when it's Analog:
Record Store Year: In 2021 Vinyl Albums Outsold CDs For The First Time In 30 Years

 
Seeing as the OP only paid £200 in the first place for it, I don’t think another £100 or so is unreasonable. Even a poorly LP12 is still worth circa £600-800?
 
Pinky said:
Cymbiosis have a nice little LP12 set up guide here:
https://www.cymbiosis.com/downloads/
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That's excellent, thanks Pinky. Like Haynes Manual guides in the car/bike world - plus detail on what changed and why over time. I don't see anything in there (bar the use of the odd special tool or two) that would strike fear and loathing into the heart of any half-competent mechanical type. That should also give me enough info to work out what the current spec is, and whether/how it's been modded.

sktn77a said:
I think you're asking a lot of an "ancient" LP12 that's probably never been serviced or set up since birth, with a budget cartridge that may or may not have been installed optimally, to compare to a then top of the line CD player that doesn't need and special setup and doesn't wear out. A properly set up LP12 with some upgrades will probably match your Karik/Numerik in some areas, surpass it in others, and fall short in some, but thats unlikely in its present state.
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To be brutally honest, the former view has been kicking round my head for a while now. Given my largely ageing (and probably permanently fixed quantity of) vinyl disks, I'd be loath to spend a huge amount replacing or upgrading a turntable chasing output quality on such a limited set of recordings though. As well as CDs, I use the Numerik coupled to a VBox for streaming, and just feel I'd get a lot more bang for my buck spending elsewhere in the system.
 
Woodface said:
Seeing as the OP only paid £200 in the first place for it, I don’t think another £100 or so is unreasonable. Even a poorly LP12 is still worth circa £600-800?
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Can't imagine any Linn dealer not finding at least a few things wrong with the neglected deck in question.... My guess minimum re-cap of the Valhala, -assuming it's a Valhala- new belt and new cart on top of the overall tune up, and being "Linn" in 2022 things can easily add up scary fast..
 
^ Yes. Not to overly labour the point chaps, but for the absolute removal of doubt - there's not.a .fuggin'.chance.in.hell I'll be taking my hard-earned anywhere within a beagle's gowl of any Linn dealer :)
 
Woodface said:
Seeing as the OP only paid £200 in the first place for it, I don’t think another £100 or so is unreasonable. Even a poorly LP12 is still worth circa £600-800?
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I agree. (I did spend £100 recently on a 'budget cartridge' as outlined above mind you, so the numbers can add up very quickly :) )

Meanwhile, getting down to it..

The turntable speed is fine, I don't have a strobe, but tested the 300Hz output track off an old hifi test record I have against an electronic tuning app on the phone, and it's there give or take a tiny fraction.

Had a quick go at the bounce test there, and am not quite sure how to interpret the results. Experimenting pushing on a line along the axis from the centre of the platter to the bearing on the Akito, without banging the platter on the deck I can set it in oscillation - which lasts for about 10-15 secs before it dies away. No noticeable sideways movement, but the oscillation is not 'pistonic' / a straightforward simple-harmonic motion as described in the Peter Swains Cymbiosis guide. It looks like a combination of two or more different waveforms, which combines to give a larger amplitude movement after every 3rd or 4th smaller cycle. It also doesn't make any banging or crashing noise - but the movement definitely is audible. Hard to tell how good or bad it is, without having access to a known good one :(

For info btw - the serial number is 26283, and the Akito was definitely a later addition, fitted just before I bought it. Anybody any idea what vintage that serial no. would place it at ?
 
If yours has a sleek black press switch with single round LED light then it will have had the Valhalla power supply fitted at some point. A Nirvana kit would have been included as standard back then. These will have put your 'spec' at pre 1984 SN <53000 Valhalla. Certainly, there may have been other 'upgrades' done. Regardless, no bad thing and a steal at the price you paid.

Somewhat dated, this is what has been floating round the interwebs for yonks as LP12 update history...

year serial modification
1993 90582 Cirkus LP12, Cirkus bearing and subchassis upgrade fitted as standard.
1992 88950 Top Plate with additional stud which improves the coupling of the top plate to the Plinth and secures the motor corner.
1991 87672 LP12 mechanics only, LP12 sold as a mechanical assembly only. Three power supply options available: Lingo, Valhalla and Basik. Valhalla and Basik (Basik PSU supplied with 45 rpm adaptor).
1991 87672 Trampolin kit, suspended base board available as an upgrade, solid base board replacing hardboard base
1991 87206 valhalla has motor thrust pad small cap factory fitted (glued in position) to reduce noise level.
1991 87047 lingo has motor thrust pad small cap factory fitted (glued in position) to reduce noise level.
1990 N/A Lingo direct coupled power supply for the LP12, offers low noise oscillators, precision filtering, separate drive for both phases and electrical isolation from mains supply.
1989 81000 Grommets composition changed to a new harder, denser rubber. Improves performance of suspension.
1989 79700 Motor thrust pad, motor thrust pad replaced with stainless steel ball bearing. Reduces motor noise.
1987 79160 Armboard material changed to MDF core, laminated top and underside. Increases rigidity of armboard, creating improved platform for tonearm.
1987 70000 Bearing housing, improved bearing liner material and thrust pad specification. Bearing liner machined to tighter tolerances, thus creating better speed stability. Changed to black oil. Tightened grinding tolerance.
1986 n/a Lid is changed for translucent type.
1984 54100 Sub-chassis, added strengthening bar, spot welded in place. Increases rigidity and strength. late '70s Attached strengthening bar with epoxy glue. Superior bond; increases rigidity.
1984 53000 Plinth, enlarged corner blocks, strengthens and increases rigidity of plinth.
1982 38800 Valhalla power supply, electronic speed control with a sophisticated crystal controlled power supply. Isolates the rotation of the turntable motor from variations in the electrical supply.
1981 32800 Nirvana kit Improved material specification of many integral mechanical components. Improved suspension and stability.
1979 27000 Lid and hinges lid prop removed and hinges changed to spring loaded, self supporting.
1978 23000 Top-plate added two holes for 6 x 0.5 self tappers into wood block
1974 2000 Main bearing liner material changed.
1974 2000 Sub-chassis strengthened by addition of strap, spot welded in place.
1974 2000 Motor control motor control pcb changed from terminal strip to small circuit board.
1974 2000 Mains switch changed from two buttons to single switch with mains neon.
1973 0000 Linn LP12 Sondek introduced
 
To the OP, are you in Ireland? (And if so, are you near Belfast or Dublin). Cloney Audio in Blackrock still setup and service LP12s for reasonable prices. Lyric in Belfast are the only Linn dealers in Ireland, but I have always found them very fair and won’t by default push all the costly bits on you, unlike some others in the UK network. I’d call both and ask.

With LP12s the setup really transforms the deck, so even an extra 50-100 or so is well worth it to get some peace of mind it’s done correctly.
 
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Alan, have you done the usual tests on the arm to check the bearings are ok? You might not want to take the cart off again to do the swing test though. I always found the LP12 to be highly sensitive to what it’s sat on, with some kind of wall mounting best in SQ terms.
I think some of it wall boil down to expectation management- you would have to throw a great deal of money at a TT to better a good digital source these days, imho. I think when you’ve got the deck optimised ( which is fun in itself) you can sit back and enjoy the things it does do well. You might get a very pleasant surprise by going to a better tip like an ML from the Audio Technica range.
 
tpetsch said:
Yes, if starting out these days and you don't really care about the Tune then it's way more cost effective to get a decent streamer but I think your confusing your anachronistic mediums, and yes, I agree, Music matters more & satisfies more when it's Analog:
Record Store Year: In 2021 Vinyl Albums Outsold CDs For The First Time In 30 Years

I don't think this is due to analog (vinyl) making a major comeback more likely that people are getting their digital fill via other means like Spotify & Tidal. Also manufacturers making less CD players these days & turning to streamers.
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wiresandmore said:
To the OP, are you in Ireland? (And if so, are you near Belfast or Dublin). Cloney Audio in Blackrock still setup and service LP12s for reasonable prices. Lyric in Belfast are the only Linn dealers in Ireland, but I have always found them very fair and won’t by default push all the costly bits on you, unlike some others in the UK network. I’d call both and ask.

With LP12s the setup really transforms the deck, so even an extra 50-100 or so is well worth it to get some peace of mind it’s done correctly.
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I am indeed in God's own country. I know both those guys, and dealt directly with Michael in Lyric when I bought my first Rega Planar 3 and Nytech 202 back in his original shop. If Im absolutely beat - I may venture towards one or another, but at this stage having read through the Cymbiosis guides and developing a bit of curiosity for hoe these decks work and what makes them tick, I'll bite the bullet and get stuck in. (Cant be any worse than disembowelling your average Ducati V-twin, or fettling the torsion bar valve setup on my old 450 Bomber..surely.. :) )

Also keen to see what I can get it to perform like as a baseline, in case I ever do decide to splash out on some of the recommended upgrades.
 
TheDecameron said:
Alan, have you done the usual tests on the arm to check the bearings are ok? You might not want to take the cart off again to do the swing test though. I always found the LP12 to be highly sensitive to what it’s sat on, with some kind of wall mounting best in SQ terms.
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Haven't done that test yet. Shall add it to the list Dec, thanks.

On the 2nd point - I've just picked up a rather large sideboard/unit that''s big enough to hold all of the kit, so probably will get throughly ridiculed (if not abused) for venturing to start drilling holes and mounting shelves in the music room. I do know the logic and received wisdom around hanging the deck off the wall, but might be prudent to defer for the meantime..
 
Craig B said:
If yours has a sleek black press switch with single round LED light then it will have had the Valhalla power supply fitted at some point. A Nirvana kit would have been included as standard back then. These will have put your 'spec' at pre 1984 SN <53000 Valhalla. Certainly, there may have been other 'upgrades' done. Regardless, no bad thing and a steal at the price you paid.
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Thanks for the list Craig - very informative.

Mine has the old red light square button, so pre Valhalla, and very possibly 1978-79 vintage based on the late 26000 series serial number and lid with spring-loaded hinges. I do know the chap I bought it off was an ardent audiophile, and dabbled swopping drive-units on speakers, and changing arms and the like. I know the akito was a late addition to my deck, so there may well be other stuff that has been chopped and changed internally. I'll take the baseboard off it a little later n the week and see if I can figure out what's in there now.
 
Off topic a little, but I think there's a "fad" currently for vinyl - nothing to do with sound quality. I think a lot of Millennials and younger are curious what all the fuss the "audiophile" community is making about vinyl (analog) being better than digital. Going by the turntables they're likely to buy (sub $500 cr_p), I think they will very soon be disillusioned and go back to their iPhones and Spotify. Then there'll be a glut of vinyl on ebay and Amazon, and pressing factories will be shutting down all over the place (again)!
 
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